音樂(lè)是如此美好！
——訪阿根廷國(guó)寶級(jí)班多鈕手風(fēng)琴演奏家瓦特爾·里奧斯

文張玉雯

瓦特爾·里奧斯出席2018深圳“一帶一路”國(guó)際音樂(lè)季開(kāi)幕式演出，攜手深圳交響樂(lè)團(tuán)演奏了探戈大師皮亞佐拉的代表作《自由探戈》和《再見(jiàn)諾尼諾》Walter Rios attends the opening performance of 2018 Shenzhen "Belt and Road" international music season,and joins hands with the Shenzhen Symphony Orchestra to play the masterpiece of the tango master Piazzolla,Free Tango and Goodbye Nonino

瓦特爾·里奧斯是當(dāng)今阿根廷國(guó)寶級(jí)班多鈕手風(fēng)琴演奏家、阿根廷探戈音樂(lè)的代表性人物。他被譽(yù)為阿斯托爾·皮亞佐拉的最佳傳承者，他改編和演奏的阿斯托爾·皮亞佐拉代表作品被世人譽(yù)為后皮亞佐拉時(shí)代最不可超越的版本。所以，當(dāng)這位藝術(shù)家千里迢迢來(lái)到中國(guó)的時(shí)候，我怎能錯(cuò)過(guò)對(duì)探戈音樂(lè)一探究竟的機(jī)會(huì)？

問(wèn)：我聽(tīng)過(guò)很多版本的《自由探戈》，有各種器樂(lè)編配形式的，也有阿卡貝拉的，我很好奇是什么原因讓這首作品如此風(fēng)靡？

瓦特爾·里奧斯（以下簡(jiǎn)稱“瓦”）：《自由探戈》這首作品是為一個(gè)舞團(tuán)創(chuàng)作，它是一個(gè)系列作品當(dāng)中的一首，還有《美式探戈》等其他作品。這首作品基本上由一種節(jié)奏型貫穿始終，因?yàn)樗墓?jié)奏固定，旋律輕快，可用來(lái)舞蹈。很有意思的是，曾經(jīng)有一位旅居法國(guó)的非裔音樂(lè)家格雷斯·瓊斯為《自由探戈》作了詞然后唱了出來(lái)，當(dāng)時(shí)皮亞佐拉很憤怒，認(rèn)為這樣的改編破壞了他的音樂(lè)，但是后來(lái)由于這一版本的流行讓他收到了很多版稅，他才發(fā)現(xiàn)原來(lái)這樣還不錯(cuò)，能賺不少錢（笑）。阿根廷國(guó)家探戈研究院的創(chuàng)始人奧拉西奧·費(fèi)雷爾也給皮亞佐拉的這首樂(lè)曲進(jìn)行填詞，主旋律部分有歌詞，而到了變奏部分就變成了擬聲詞。每個(gè)人的編曲不一樣，但核心是一樣的。

問(wèn)：您覺(jué)得應(yīng)如何評(píng)判創(chuàng)作水平的高低？

瓦：皮亞佐拉的創(chuàng)作非常高產(chǎn)，比如《四季》《遺忘》都是屬于他不同創(chuàng)作時(shí)期的作品，《四季》中的《冬》就是他自己其中最喜歡的一個(gè)樂(lè)章。作為作曲家，他自己會(huì)去評(píng)判自己的作品，哪首更好。我在洛杉磯的時(shí)候，曾經(jīng)與“永遠(yuǎn)的探戈”舞團(tuán)編配過(guò)一種《自由探戈》的版本；1997年在日本，也改編了一首《提琴探戈》，還有阿根廷舞者伴奏，也是大受歡迎。所以，聽(tīng)眾也會(huì)去選擇自己喜歡的作品。

問(wèn)：很多國(guó)人開(kāi)始關(guān)注到皮亞佐拉的探戈，大多源于馬友友的那張專輯《探戈靈魂》，后來(lái)便逐漸在專業(yè)音樂(lè)學(xué)院的師生們的曲目單上流行開(kāi)來(lái)。為什么是皮亞佐拉而不是其他的探戈作曲家得到如此廣泛的國(guó)際認(rèn)知？

瓦：這個(gè)主要有兩個(gè)原因：首先是整個(gè)環(huán)境的因素，20世紀(jì)50至60年代，皮亞佐拉在阿根廷的境遇很不盡如人意，他開(kāi)創(chuàng)的“新派探戈”在阿根廷國(guó)內(nèi)遭受到極大的打擊，特別是一些傳統(tǒng)的探戈人的非議，這就導(dǎo)致他很難在阿根廷繼續(xù)呆下去，最后只能走出國(guó)門；再加上他有非常強(qiáng)大的創(chuàng)作能力，所以自然而然就得到了其他國(guó)家音樂(lè)界的認(rèn)可和接受。與之相對(duì)的是，其他的探戈音樂(lè)家在阿根廷呆得很愜意，也沒(méi)有走出阿根廷的迫切動(dòng)力，所以很少有像皮亞佐拉那樣在國(guó)外呆了很長(zhǎng)時(shí)間的人。第二個(gè)原因，皮亞佐拉的創(chuàng)作與西方的爵士、古典音樂(lè)有大量結(jié)合，更容易被西方聽(tīng)眾所接受。

問(wèn)：新事物的出現(xiàn)總是伴隨著傳統(tǒng)派的強(qiáng)烈反對(duì)，這是一個(gè)非常普遍的現(xiàn)象。

瓦：在阿根廷探戈歷史當(dāng)中，有兩位非常重要的探戈人物。一位是卡洛斯·加德?tīng)?，我們所熟知的《一步之遙》就是他創(chuàng)作的。除此之外，他還創(chuàng)作了大量的作品，出演了多部電影。在加德?tīng)柍霈F(xiàn)之前，探戈整體風(fēng)格是輕松愉悅的，但是加德?tīng)柊烟礁曜兂闪藗械囊魳?lè)。這在當(dāng)時(shí)也遭到了很多人的抨擊，甚至宣告探戈已經(jīng)死了。加德?tīng)枀⑴c拍攝了大量的電影，但這些電影也并非在阿根廷制作，而是在美國(guó)紐約拍攝，這些事情的發(fā)生同樣是因?yàn)樗膭?chuàng)新已經(jīng)超出了阿根廷民眾的理解范圍，得不到認(rèn)可的情況下也逼得只能走出去。他的探戈代表作《一步之遙》《我親愛(ài)的布宜諾斯艾利斯》都是在紐約創(chuàng)作的，到后來(lái)才逐漸被阿根廷人所接受，所以這種情況和皮亞佐拉也如出一轍。

加德?tīng)柕膭?chuàng)作高峰是在上世紀(jì)30年代，但是在1936年就英年早逝，所以他的黃金時(shí)期很短。皮亞佐拉也有自己的創(chuàng)作高峰，大概是在上世紀(jì)60、70年代。還有一位霍拉西奧·阿道夫·薩爾干，他也是皮亞佐拉先鋒時(shí)代的兩位代表人之一，雖然他在國(guó)際上知名度很低，但在阿根廷的知名度和接受度遠(yuǎn)遠(yuǎn)超過(guò)皮亞佐拉。

問(wèn)：所以，是否可以理解為國(guó)際和中國(guó)聽(tīng)眾對(duì)探戈的審美喜好是不一樣的？

瓦：這不僅是審美問(wèn)題，還是文化差異的問(wèn)題。這些傳統(tǒng)的探戈人很少走出國(guó)門，或只有偶爾有出國(guó)的機(jī)會(huì)，所以國(guó)外的聽(tīng)眾很少能聽(tīng)到這些人的音樂(lè)。但是在阿根廷國(guó)內(nèi)的傳統(tǒng)探戈領(lǐng)域有大量的作曲家，其知名度遠(yuǎn)遠(yuǎn)超過(guò)皮亞佐拉，他們的受眾主要是一些舞者，因?yàn)樘礁瓯旧砭褪且环N舞蹈。比如，安妮巴·特洛伊羅、胡安·達(dá)里恩佐、卡洛斯·迪薩利等這些才是對(duì)阿根廷人意義重大的音樂(lè)家。

所以探戈里有眾多流派和風(fēng)格，他們都有各自的特點(diǎn)和大量的受眾，而不僅僅是皮亞佐拉。比如《探戈舞會(huì)》這首，幾乎阿根廷的每一個(gè)舞團(tuán)都有自己的編配，在中國(guó)知名度也很高，盡管烏拉圭聲稱這首作品是他們的。

這種海內(nèi)外喜愛(ài)有別的情況也同樣發(fā)生于巴西的波薩諾瓦，它在海外得到了廣泛流傳，而不被巴西本土的傳統(tǒng)派所接受。因?yàn)樯０褪莻鹘y(tǒng)，而桑巴和爵士的結(jié)合就變成了波薩諾瓦。我很喜歡這樣的融合手法。

在阿根廷的情況是，一旦人們接受一種音樂(lè)傳統(tǒng)時(shí)，便很難接受在它基礎(chǔ)上的革新，這也是由于傳統(tǒng)勢(shì)力比較強(qiáng)大的關(guān)系。而探戈現(xiàn)在基本上可以說(shuō)已經(jīng)達(dá)到全球化的程度，在俄羅斯、芬蘭、日本都得到了普遍的喜愛(ài)。

里奧斯夫婦在北京DDC劇場(chǎng)舉辦音樂(lè)會(huì)，廣受北京青年的歡迎Mr and Mrs Rios have held a concert at the DDC Theater in Beijing,which was widely welcomed by Beijing youth.

問(wèn)：我在觀看你演奏的一些作品時(shí)，聽(tīng)到了你自己編創(chuàng)的部分，而這個(gè)編配基礎(chǔ)或是風(fēng)格究竟從何而來(lái)？

瓦：首先，我本身就喜歡旋律性的作品，又很喜歡爵士。無(wú)論是傳統(tǒng)探戈或是新派探戈，除了主旋律之外，可以改動(dòng)的空間非常大。因此，我會(huì)根據(jù)自己的喜好和標(biāo)準(zhǔn)，在不影響作品主旋律框架之外來(lái)發(fā)揮屬于我本人風(fēng)格的編曲。比如《再見(jiàn)諾尼諾》有無(wú)數(shù)個(gè)版本，而我演奏的是自己的版本。在包括我的作曲方式，能夠讓樂(lè)團(tuán)以更好的方式去接受，大家都很喜歡，難度沒(méi)有皮亞佐拉的作品那么大，思維比較接近現(xiàn)代人。

問(wèn)：據(jù)我所知，班多鈕在手風(fēng)琴家族中也是很難的一件樂(lè)器，這種難體現(xiàn)在什么地方？

瓦：普通的手風(fēng)琴開(kāi)合音箱，按鍵只有一個(gè)音，而班多鈕打開(kāi)風(fēng)箱是一個(gè)音，閉合風(fēng)箱又是一個(gè)音，是一種雙系統(tǒng)。德國(guó)人發(fā)明班多鈕的時(shí)候是為了代替管風(fēng)琴，因?yàn)楣茱L(fēng)琴體積過(guò)于龐大，而班多鈕卻很輕巧。而且，班多鈕的類別也很多，從初級(jí)到高級(jí)有很多種，它不僅可以演奏探戈音樂(lè)，還可以演奏本土的傳統(tǒng)音樂(lè)，甚至是任何音樂(lè)，比如古典、爵士、鄉(xiāng)村等。

我學(xué)手風(fēng)琴完全是因?yàn)槲业母赣H，他是一位手風(fēng)琴演奏家。在我四歲的時(shí)候，我父親播放了爵士音樂(lè)，那時(shí)候的我非常喜歡，所以我并不是從探戈來(lái)介入到班多鈕演奏當(dāng)中的。盡管我身上的標(biāo)簽是探戈音樂(lè)家，我也演奏了很多探戈，錄制了很多探戈的專輯，已經(jīng)無(wú)法脫離這一層身份，但是對(duì)于我來(lái)說(shuō)，班多鈕不僅僅意味著探戈。

我與很多其他音樂(lè)類型和體裁的音樂(lè)家及音樂(lè)團(tuán)體都有過(guò)合作，比如前不久和搖滾、爵士，包括阿根廷很知名的民族歌唱家Merecedes Sosa都有錄制作品，這些與探戈都并無(wú)關(guān)系。我與北美、巴西、土耳其、以色列的音樂(lè)家都有很多合作，這于我都是一種享受。

問(wèn)：所以您的創(chuàng)作理念是非常年輕而包容的，而您現(xiàn)在所參與的音樂(lè)活動(dòng)也恰恰是時(shí)下的潮流——跨界音樂(lè)。

瓦：人的生命有限，所以我們要充分享受這些美好的音樂(lè)。而且我想嘗試各種各樣的音樂(lè)——我去過(guò)很多國(guó)家，發(fā)現(xiàn)每個(gè)國(guó)家音樂(lè)的不同之美，而且我自己所演奏的樂(lè)器也可以參與進(jìn)來(lái)，并能很快地融入這種共享的狀態(tài)當(dāng)中。我所合作的各個(gè)國(guó)家的音樂(lè)家都因?yàn)榘喽噔o而聚合起來(lái)，創(chuàng)作出一些很有意思或很有意義的作品。所有的人生經(jīng)歷都是因?yàn)橐魳?lè)而來(lái)，音樂(lè)是如此美好！

瓦特爾·里奧斯出席2018深圳"一帶一路"國(guó)際音樂(lè)季開(kāi)幕式演出劇照Performance stills of Walter Rios

瓦特爾·里奧斯在中央音樂(lè)學(xué)院開(kāi)展手風(fēng)琴大師班，圖為里奧斯夫婦與中央音樂(lè)學(xué)院手風(fēng)琴系教授曹曉青及其學(xué)生合影Walter Rios opens the Accordion Master Class at the Central Conservatory of Music,photo: Walter Rios take a picture with CAO Xiaoqing,professor of the Accordion Department of the Central Conservatory of Music and the students

Walter Rios is today's Argentine national-treasure-level Bandoneon accordion player and the representative figure of the country's tango music.He is considered as the best inheritor of Astor Piazzolla,and his performance of Astor Piazzolla's works under his adaptation is hailed as the most unsurpassed version of the post-Piazzolla era.Hence,how could I miss the opportunity to explore tango music as the artist came to China?

Q: I have listened to many versions ofLibertango,some was composed by various instrument or in form of A Cappella and etc.I am most curious about the very reasons behind for this work's high popularity?

Walter Rios (Hereinafter referred to as "W"):Libertangois a work for a dance group.It is one of a series of works,there is also other works,such asAmerican Tangoamongst others.This work is basically a one-rhythm type,as its rhythm is fixed with light melody,it can be used for dance.Interestingly,there was once a French-born African-American musician,Grace Jones,who made lyrics forLibertangoand sang it.Piazzolla was quite angry and thought that such an adaptation had broken his music,but later due to the popularity of this version,he had received a lot of royalties,he then found that that was not bad,it could make a lot of money (laughs).Horacio Ferrer,founder of the Argentine National Tango Institute,also wrote a lyric for Piazzolla's piece.The main melody part had lyrics,and the part of the variation becomes onomatopoeia.Each person's arrangement is different,but the core remains the same.

W: Piazzolla's creations are very productive.For example,Four SeasonsandForgottenbelong to his different creation periods.

WinterinFour Seasonsis one of his favorite movements.As a composer,he will judge his own work,which is better or worse.When I was in Los Angeles,I had a version of "Libertango"with the Forever Tango Dance Group.In 1997,I also adapted aViolin Tangoin Japan,together with an Argentine dancer accompaniment.It was also very popular.Therefore,the audiences will also choose the works they prefer.

Q: Many people in China began to pay attention to Piazzolla's tango,mostly from MA Youyou's albumTango Soul,and later it gradually became quite popular on the track list of teachers and students of professional music colleges.Why is Piazzolla,but not other tango composers,so widely recognized internationally?

W: There are mainly two reasons for this：Firstly,it is due to the whole environment factor.In the 1950s and 1960s,Piazzolla's situation in Argentina was most unsatisfactory.Thenuevatangohe started in the country has suffered a great blow in Argentina,especially because of the criticism from some traditional Tango insiders,which made it difficult for him to continue to stay in the country,but to travel abroad.In addition,he has a very strong creative ability,so he naturally received recognition and acceptance from other countries' music circles.In contrast,other tango musicians are very comfortable in Argentina,and they definitely have no urgent need to go to other foreign countries.And there are very few people who have stayed abroad for such a long time as Piazzolla.For the second reason,Piazzolla's creations are heavily integrated with Western jazz and classical music,and are more easily accepted by Western audiences.

Q: The emergence of new things is always accompanied by strong opposition from the traditional faction,which is a very common phenomenon.

W: In the history of Argentine tango,there are two very important tango figures: one is Carlos Gardel,and the worksOne Step Awayas we are very familiar is his creation.

In addition,he has also created a large number of works and starred in many films.Before Gardel's appearance,the overall style of tango was easy and pleasant,but he actually turned tango into a sad music,which was also attacked by many people at the time,and even it was declared that Tango was dead.Gardel has been involved in a large number of films,which were not produced in Argentina,but in New York,and these occurred as his innovations were beyond the understanding of the Argentine people and were not recognized,forcing him to go out.His tango masterpieceOne Step AwayandMy Dear Buenos Aireswere all created in New York,and later gradually accepted by his countrymen.So this situation is exactly the same as Piazzolla.

Gardel's creative peak was after the 1930s,however,he passed away young in 1936,so his golden age was most short.Piazzolla also had his own peaks of creation probably around the 1960s and 1970s,and Horacio Adolfo Salgán,one of the two representatives of Piazzolla's pioneering era.Though enjoying a quite low reputation internationally,his popularity and acceptance in Argentina far exceeded Piazzolla.

Q: So can we say that the international and Chinese audiences are different from the aesthetic preferences of tango?

W: This is not just an aesthetic issue,but a matter of cultural differences.These traditional tango people rarely go abroad,or occasionally have the opportunity to travel to other countries,so foreign audiences rarely hear the music created by these people.However,there are a large number of composers in the traditional tango field in Argentina,which are far more famous than Piazzolla.Their audiences are mainly dancers,because tango itself is a kind of dance.For example,Aníbal Troilo,Juan D'Arienzo,Carlos Di Sarli and etc are the musicians who are very significant to Argentines.

So Tango has many genres and styles,featuring their own characteristics and a large group of audiences,not just those of Piazzolla.For example,theTango Ball,almost every dance group in Argentina has its own allocation of the music,and its popularity in China is also high,although Uruguay claims that this work is theirs.

This kind of different passion at home and abroad respectively also occurs to bossa nova of Brazil,which has been widely spread overseas,but not accepted by traditional Brazilians.Because samba is a tradition,and the combination of samba and jazz has become Bossa Nova,which I really like this fusion.

The situation in Argentina is that once people accept a musical tradition,it is most difficult to accept innovation based on it,which is also due to the relatively strong traditional forces.Tango now has basically reached the globalized level,and it has been widely accepted in Russia,Finland and Japan.

Q: When I watched some of the works you played,I heard the part you created yourself,and where did this composition basis or style come from?

W: Firstly,I like melodic works myself and jazz as well.Whether it is a traditional or a new tango,the space that can be changed is very large except for the main theme.Therefore,I will play my own style of arrangement according to my own preferences and standards without affecting the main theme of the works.For example,"Adiós Nonino" has countless versions,and I am playing my own version.Including my composition,it is also able to let the orchestra accept it in a better way.Everyone likes it,as the difficulty is not as large as that of Piazzolla,and the general thinking is closer to modern people.

Question: As far as I know,Bandoneon is also a very difficult instrument in the accordion family.Where is this difficulty reflected?

W: The button has only one tone when the ordinary accordion opens the speaker， while as for the Bandoneon,the opening and closing of bellows indicate different tones,which is a dual system.The Germans invented the Bandoneon with the hope of replacing the organ,which was too large and the Bandoneon was very light.Moreover,there are many categories of Bandoneon,starting from beginner to the advanced.It can not only play tango music,but also local traditional music,even any type of music,such as classical,jazz,country and so on.

I learned the accordion entirely because of my father,who is an accordion player.When I was four years old,my father played jazz music.I liked it very much at that time,so I didn't get involved in the Bandoneon playing from Tango.Even though I am labeled as a tango musician,I also played a lot of tango and recorded a lot of albums accordingly.So I can't shake off this identity.But for me,Bandoneon doesn't just mean tango.

I have worked with many other musicians and music groups of different music genres and styles.For example,rock and jazz,I have even recorded works with the well-known national singer of Argentina,Merecedes Sosa few days ago,which have nothing to do with tango.I have also a lot of cooperation with musicians from North America,Brazil,Turkey,and Israel,which is a pleasure for me.

Q: So your creative philosophy is very young and inclusive,and the music-concerned activities you currently being involved in are just the current trend - cross-border music.

W: Human life is limited,so we have to fully enjoy these beautiful musics.So I want to try a variety of music.I have been to many countries and found the beauty of each of their own music,and the instruments I play can also participate and quickly integrate into this shared state.

The musicians of the countries I work with are all gathered up due to Bandoneon so as to create some interesting or meaningful works.All life experiences come from music,and the music is so beautiful!

瓦特爾·里奧斯大師在中央音樂(lè)學(xué)院開(kāi)展手風(fēng)琴大師班，圖為里奧斯夫婦與中國(guó)文聯(lián)副主席、中國(guó)劇協(xié)主席濮存昕，中央音樂(lè)學(xué)院手風(fēng)琴系教授曹曉青及其學(xué)生合影Walter Rios opens the Accordion Master Class at the Central Conservatory of Music,photo: Mr and Mrs Rios take a picture with PU Cunxin,vice president of the China Federawion of Literary and Art Circles,president of China Theatre Association.Cao Xiaoqing,professor of the Accordion Department of the Central Conservatory of Music and the students