“一帶一路”作用獨(dú)特本刊專訪葡萄牙經(jīng)濟(jì)與創(chuàng)新部原部長(zhǎng)曼努埃爾·皮諾

◎ 文 《法人》全媒體記者 李立娟 《法人》實(shí)習(xí)生 賈潤(rùn)思

能源投資房地產(chǎn)和股票投資不同，需要有長(zhǎng)期規(guī)劃。 “一帶一路”倡議在促進(jìn)能源領(lǐng)域投資方面發(fā)揮著獨(dú)特作用，具有非常重要的積極意義

葡萄牙長(zhǎng)期以來一直被視為是可再生能源領(lǐng)域的領(lǐng)導(dǎo)者，葡萄牙原經(jīng)濟(jì)與創(chuàng)新部長(zhǎng)曼努埃爾·皮諾（Manuel Pinho）曾于2005年至2009年擔(dān)任歐洲能源委員會(huì)主席。他被公認(rèn)為是葡萄牙清潔能源改革的世界級(jí)領(lǐng)袖，歐洲戰(zhàn)略能源技術(shù)計(jì)劃的推動(dòng)者，一手打造了歐洲能源新紀(jì)元。

7月，皮諾教授在北京大學(xué)擔(dān)任客座教授期間，就中國(guó)新能源的發(fā)展、“一帶一路”倡議中的新能源改革的推進(jìn)作用等議題，接受了《法人》記者的專訪。

“我會(huì)花更多時(shí)間了解中國(guó)”

《法人》：據(jù)葡萄牙電網(wǎng)運(yùn)營(yíng)商 REN 稱，葡萄牙2018年 3 月可再生能源的發(fā)電量超過了全國(guó)的電網(wǎng)負(fù)荷，實(shí)現(xiàn)了100% 清潔能源。對(duì)此您有何評(píng)價(jià)？

曼努埃爾 · 皮諾：葡萄牙由傳統(tǒng)能源向清潔能源轉(zhuǎn)變期間，我曾經(jīng)擔(dān)任能源部部長(zhǎng)，但我決不認(rèn)為我是一名政治家。因?yàn)槲以趪?guó)際組織、私營(yíng)企業(yè)和學(xué)校機(jī)構(gòu)都做過很多工作。清潔能源戰(zhàn)略的實(shí)施主要包括拍賣大量水力和陸上風(fēng)力發(fā)電許可，并承諾保持電價(jià)不變。太陽(yáng)能光伏發(fā)電和海上風(fēng)力發(fā)電因發(fā)電方式成本極高，過去并不是可選項(xiàng)。而現(xiàn)在，光伏發(fā)電和風(fēng)力發(fā)電成本大幅下降，成本已經(jīng)不是問題了。核能發(fā)電也不是合適的選擇，因?yàn)槠咸蜒烂娣e狹小；核電成本高昂，且社會(huì)各界普遍對(duì)核電抱有畏懼心理。

曼努埃爾·皮諾Manuel Pinho

與此同時(shí)，政府當(dāng)時(shí)還鼓勵(lì)企業(yè)在國(guó)內(nèi)生產(chǎn)產(chǎn)品，從而創(chuàng)造更多就業(yè)機(jī)會(huì)。我可能還沒有資格來評(píng)價(jià)我自己，但是葡萄牙長(zhǎng)期以來一直被視為是可再生能源領(lǐng)域的領(lǐng)導(dǎo)者，可再生能源是代表未來的能源。

I was a minister during the transition of my country to clean energies,however by no ways I see myself as a politician. I had many jobs in international organizations, the private sector and academics. The energy strategy consisted mostly on auctioning a large number of permits to produce power from hydro and onshore wind and the commitment to maintain the rules unchanged. Solar PV and offshore wind were not alternatives because they were very expensive which is not the case anymore given the spectacular decline in their costs. Nuclear was not an option either because the country is pretty small； costs are high； and societies do not feel comfortable with this technology. At the same time, manufacturers were encouraged to produce in the country, which created many jobs. I am not well quali fi ed to evaluate myself,however my country has been considered a leader in renewable energies for long.Renewable energies are the energy of the future.

《法人》：作為北京大學(xué)的客座教授，您來中國(guó)的主要研究領(lǐng)域是什么？

曼努埃爾 · 皮諾：能源目前涉及到經(jīng)濟(jì)、金融、監(jiān)管、政治等問題，是一個(gè)非常令人興奮的話題。而且我的課程內(nèi)容充實(shí)，講課活力滿滿，因此，自從2010年以來，我先后受邀到7所世界頂級(jí)大學(xué)教書。北京大學(xué)是一所世界級(jí)的大學(xué)，我有幸在工程系的一個(gè)項(xiàng)目中開展教學(xué)工作，這個(gè)項(xiàng)目吸引了很多來自中國(guó)和其他國(guó)家的學(xué)生。我喜歡教學(xué)，也正是因?yàn)榻虒W(xué)，我不斷旅行，足跡遍布四海。我的研究領(lǐng)域是關(guān)于中國(guó)與全球化，中國(guó)的碳排放情況以及中國(guó)將可再生能源納入電力系統(tǒng)中面臨的挑戰(zhàn)。而且，鑒于貿(mào)易爭(zhēng)端、二氧化碳排放量的上升以及大規(guī)模整合可再生能源帶來的意想不到的挑戰(zhàn)，這些都是這個(gè)話題令人著迷的地方。每年，我都會(huì)花更多的時(shí)間停留在中國(guó)，這樣我才能更好地了解中國(guó)國(guó)情。

Since 2010 I have been invited to teach at 7 top universities around the world, energy is a very exciting topic with many dimensions from technology to economics and fi nance and including regulation and geopolitics. PKU is a world- class university. I am delighted with the opportunity to teach in a program that has attracted so many talented students from China and other countries. I love teaching which makes me travel constantly and my research is on China and globalization, China′s carbon emissions and the challenge of integrating renewable energies in power systems. I believe that they are exciting topics related to real world situations, given trade disputes, the rise in CO2 emissions and the unexpected challenges from integrating variable renewable energies in large scale. Every year I spend more time in China,this allows me to know your country better.

與中國(guó)合作極為重要

《法人》：您如何評(píng)判中國(guó)“一帶一路”倡議在清潔能源改革方面所做的努力？

曼努埃爾 · 皮諾：“一帶一路”是自馬歇爾計(jì)劃以來最重要的國(guó)際合作倡議。它不僅提升了中國(guó)在世界上的形象，也為許多國(guó)家創(chuàng)造了機(jī)會(huì)。在我看來，這對(duì)于抵消貿(mào)易保護(hù)主義帶來的不利影響是非常重要的，此時(shí)此刻，“一帶一路”的倡議顯得尤為重要?！耙粠б宦贰笔乖S多國(guó)家能源需求劇增，在生產(chǎn)、運(yùn)輸和流通等諸多領(lǐng)域，這些國(guó)家亟須開發(fā)新能源項(xiàng)目來保障能源供給。

因此，與中國(guó)開展相關(guān)合作極為重要。他們不僅能獲得資金支持，還能學(xué)習(xí)先進(jìn)的技術(shù)。中國(guó)已經(jīng)在太陽(yáng)能光伏、高壓能源運(yùn)輸和電動(dòng)汽車等方面處于世界領(lǐng)先地位。歐洲和中國(guó)的能源市場(chǎng)非常多樣化，但是各國(guó)都有著共同目標(biāo)，那就是發(fā)展清潔能源和避免過度依賴外部能源供給。“一帶一路”倡議不僅能極大促進(jìn)投資，而且有助于減少碳排放。因此我認(rèn)為， “一帶一路”倡議的實(shí)施在2018年全球碳排放并不樂觀的情況下，這是首先需要考慮的任務(wù)。我們并沒有足夠的時(shí)間了。

The Belt and Road is undoubtedly the most important external cooperation initiative since the Marshall Plan. It has not only raised China′s profile in the world but also created opportunities for many countries. Its importance is greater than ever before to offset trends in protectionism, which are potentially very harmful,everybody may lose. . In many countries of B&R energy demand is growing fast and they need to develop new energy projects in many areas, all along from production, to transport and distribution. Cooperation with China will be very important to allow them bridging the financial gap and acquire technical expertize. In energy, China is already a leader in a few areas, for example solar PV, high- voltage energy transport and electric vehicles. Energy markets in Europe and China are very diverse, however countries share the common goal of developing clean energies and avoid excessive external dependence. The B&R initiative is a powerful tool and it has the capacity not only to promote investment, but also to contribute to the reduction of carbon emissions. This is a priority and the fi gures for world carbon emissions in 2018 are not good. We are running out of time.

《法人》：您如何評(píng)價(jià)“一帶一路”沿線亞歐能源市場(chǎng)的特點(diǎn)？有的評(píng)論稱，亞歐能源市場(chǎng)分散，基礎(chǔ)設(shè)施老化，各國(guó)能源政策缺乏透明度，亞歐應(yīng)實(shí)現(xiàn)“能源一體化”，創(chuàng)造一個(gè)更加一體化、相互關(guān)聯(lián)和競(jìng)爭(zhēng)的市場(chǎng)。您如何認(rèn)為？

曼努埃爾 · 皮諾：你認(rèn)為市場(chǎng)是分散的，這并沒有錯(cuò)。如何通過基礎(chǔ)設(shè)施投資使得市場(chǎng)（包括石油、天然氣，電力運(yùn)輸和配送等領(lǐng)域）更加一體化，是我們應(yīng)該優(yōu)先考慮的問題。中國(guó)公司是這些領(lǐng)域的領(lǐng)導(dǎo)者。誠(chéng)然，能源政策在許多國(guó)家缺乏透明度，因?yàn)槟茉催€牽扯到政治問題。在任何一個(gè)國(guó)家，應(yīng)對(duì)最終消費(fèi)者支付的能源價(jià)格和缺乏主權(quán)的感覺（能源依賴）都是敏感的。

You are totally right in arguing that markets are fragmented, one of the priorities is to make them more integrated as a result of investment in infrastructure, all along from oil, natural gas and power transportation and distribution. Companies from China are leaders in these areas. It is true that energy policies lack transparency in many, if not in most countries, because energy has a strong political dimension. Anywhere in the world it is politically sensitive to deal with energy prices paid by final consumers and with the perception of lack of sovereignty, i.e. energy dependence.

能源投資需要有長(zhǎng)期規(guī)劃

《法人》：您認(rèn)為世界清潔能源的發(fā)展面臨哪些挑戰(zhàn)？

曼努埃爾 · 皮諾：清潔能源在世界范圍內(nèi)進(jìn)展良好，其減少碳排放和污染的能力已經(jīng)得到證實(shí)，成本也急劇下降，且這一趨勢(shì)會(huì)繼續(xù)下去。當(dāng)然，清潔能源的使用也帶來了一些挑戰(zhàn)。比如，它改變了我們對(duì)電力系統(tǒng)的運(yùn)作方式和最佳治理模式的看法；如何建立有效的定價(jià)機(jī)制；新能源戰(zhàn)略如何對(duì)接交通電氣化等。總的來說，清潔能源是一個(gè)非常吸引人的課題，需要各國(guó)進(jìn)一步研究和交流經(jīng)驗(yàn)。

Clean energies are progressing well around the world, their capacity to contribute to reducing carbon emissions and pollution is well established and their cost has declined precipitously, and this trend is likely to continue. At the same time it is creating several challenges, all along from changing our perception about how power systems work and what is the best governance model, to establishing efficient pricing mechanisms not to mention how renewable energies will fi t with the electri fi cation of transport. Overall, this is a fascinating topic that requires further research and the exchange of experiences by countries.

《法人》： “一帶一路”能源合作仍然面臨著哪些挑戰(zhàn)？

曼努埃爾 · 皮諾：能源投資和房地產(chǎn)、股票投資不同，需要有長(zhǎng)期規(guī)劃。因此，規(guī)劃和推出新項(xiàng)目需要時(shí)間?！耙粠б宦贰背h在促進(jìn)能源領(lǐng)域投資方面發(fā)揮著獨(dú)特的作用，這個(gè)過程是循序漸進(jìn)的，我認(rèn)為這是具有積極意義的，當(dāng)然成功需要更多決心和耐心的付出。

Investments in the energy sector have a long- term horizon； it is not the same as investing in real estate or in the stock market. Therefore, it will take time for planning and the roll out of new projects. The B&R initiative is a multi year initiative with a unique capacity to facilitating investments in the energy sector, its roll out will be gradual, which is positive in my view, and its success depends on determination and patience.