母女情深

Robert Siegel （Host）： Now a story about a mother and daughter bound through impersonation. Comedian Maria Bamford imitates her mother for laughs on stage. And that got NPRs Alix Spiegel wondering about how that mightve affected their relationship.

Alix Spiegel （Byline）： In her professional life， Maria Bamford often plays her mom.

（Soundbite of archived recording）

Maria Bamford： My mom—Ill tell you a little about myself. My mom told me before I went to my first girl-boy party in the eighth grade， she said， “OK， remember what we talked about—gonorrhea， syphilis， herpes， one， two. Watch the cold sores. Date rape is a lot more common than people think. You look so gorgeous. Oh， Jennys moms here to pick you up. Well， have a good time.”（Laughter）

Spiegel： Bits like this are standard in Bamfords act. Sometimes， the version of her mom that she plays is just funny because the mom can be so charmingly upbeat about the horrors of the world that its hilarious. But sometimes the imitation feel like theyre about elements in their relationship that have a darker side， like in this YouTube bit she did.

（Soundbite of YouTube video）

Maria： So sweetie you taking a shower？ Can I just get in there real quick and just show you something？ Oh， I didnt know you were naked. Oh， sweetie， listen， if you want to get breast implants， we will support you—not financially， but emotionally.

Spiegel： So what happens when you mess in a very public way with an entanglement thats pretty complicated already—the emotional entanglement between mother and daughter—how does that affect things？ On two different days， in two different states， with the blessing of both， we spoke to Maria and her mom， whose name is Marilyn Bamford， about this. We started with Maria， who said her mom imitations were some of the very first comedy bits she ever did and that， in the beginning， she did them to get a kind of distance or control over her relationship with her mother.

Maria： For me， it was a time in life of， like， detaching from my family or detaching from， you know， what I think they want me to be. Like， my mom， I remember she did—or what I heard her say—of course， she may have a different feeling of what she said at the time， but she said if you dont wear makeup…

（Soundbite of archived recording）

Maria： …Honey， when you dont wear makeup， you look mentally ill. So now， when I go home， Im certain to wear thick， green eye shadow and a line of lipstick around my lips. Uh？ Baby look pretty now， mommy？

（Laughter）

Marilyn Bamford： Oh， it feels like shes got me down perfectly in terms of voice， cadence， vocabulary. You know， shes…

Spiegel： And what about the things that you say？ I mean…

Marilyn： Well， quite a bit of that is not exactly what I say. The one I think about was the one where she has me saying when you dont wear lipstick， you look mentally ill.

Spiegel： Yeah.

Marilyn： And she and I have gone back and forth about that because I—I know I didnt say it that way. I said you look depressed. I mean， thats my memory of it. On the other hand， she remembers what she remembers.

Spiegel： But， still， Marilyn doesnt seem disturbed at all by her daughters impression of her， even by the things that she feels are misrepresentations of what she said or how she is. She sees the impression as helpful.

Marilyn： And so when I say something like， oh， I dont think I said that， and then we have a discussion about it， it is helpful in the end. But I know there are probably some times where I have chosen not to say anything about it because Im not sure I want to discuss it or have the energy to discuss it.

Maria： You know， I think the real reason youre down is because youre 36， and you look 36. And thats hard.

Spiegel： Do you learn anything about yourself from watching her imitation of you？

Marilyn： Oh， yes （laughter）. I kind of remind myself of my mother. My mother was a believer that you put your lipstick on and you powdered your nose. And I think I see that there in myself and I say， oh， no （laughter）. I dont wanna be that way. But， what can you do？

Spiegel： And speaking of the inevitable gravity of being your mother， though Maria Bamford started her imitation to detach from her mom， it ended up having the reverse effect. It brought her closer.

Maria： Like， it cheers me up to think about what she would say about things. Like， I like the idea that she has a certain point of view on life and things are certain or—or if I—if shes not around， I can make her be around. In terms of， like， I would like to be more like her as I get older. Like， Im hoping that my impersonation just bleeds into—Im her （laughter） as I grow older.

Spiegel： Are you really hoping that？

Maria： Yeah. You know， I could just be the full-on Marilyn Bamford because shes a very likable person， you know？ Shes always bright-eyed and bushy-tailed. Its like， oh， honey， were going—were in Turkey and I wanted to call you because the hotel next door is on fire and your father is Vining it. We are going to have dinner tonight in the town square and everybodys out…

Spiegel： And Marilyn Bamford， in her own way， has experienced an unanticipated benefit from her daughters impressions of her.

Marilyn： I think that many women my age who are， you know， catching up with 70， you know， feel kind of invisible. So therefore， when you have your daughter doing these really wonderful and gifted impressions of you， it makes you kind of immortal in some way. And thats kind of a lovely thing to happen at this age.

羅伯特·西格爾（主持人）：現(xiàn)在講一個(gè)通過模仿來維系母女感情的故事。喜劇演員瑪利亞·班福德在舞臺(tái)上通過模仿自己的媽媽來逗樂觀眾。NPR新聞的阿里克斯·施皮格爾好奇這會(huì)對(duì)她們母女的關(guān)系有什么影響。

阿里克斯·施皮格爾（撰稿人）：在她的職業(yè)生涯中，瑪利亞·班福德經(jīng)常扮演她的媽媽。

（表演原聲片段）

瑪利亞·班福德：我的媽媽——我告訴你們一些我的事。在我8年級(jí)第一次參加男女派對(duì)前，我媽對(duì)我說：“好吧，記得我們之前說過的話——淋病、梅毒、皰疹病毒I型、II型。小心唇皰疹。在約會(huì)中被強(qiáng)暴比人們想的更加常見。你看起來美極了。噢，珍妮的媽媽來接你了。好吧，祝你玩得開心?！?/p>

（笑）

施皮格爾：這些都是班福德的常規(guī)表演。有時(shí)候，她扮演的媽媽真的很有趣，因?yàn)槊鎸?duì)這個(gè)可怕的世界，媽媽樂天派的精神確實(shí)很逗樂。但是有時(shí)候瑪利亞的表演也讓人感覺到她們（母女間）關(guān)系的陰暗面，像是這個(gè)她在YouTube（上傳）的表演片段。（YouTube視頻的原聲片段）

瑪利亞：那么親愛的，你在洗澡嗎？我能快點(diǎn)進(jìn)來給你看點(diǎn)東西嗎？噢，我不知道你光著身子。噢，親愛的，聽著，如果你想要隆胸，我們會(huì)支持你的——不是在經(jīng)濟(jì)上，而是在精神上。

施皮格爾：那么當(dāng)你把已經(jīng)很復(fù)雜的糾纏——母女間的感情糾葛公開地表現(xiàn)出來的時(shí)候，會(huì)有什么樣的影響呢？在兩個(gè)不同的日子里，在兩個(gè)不同的州，經(jīng)過她們兩人的同意，我們分別采訪了瑪利亞和她的媽媽——瑪里琳·班福德。我們首先采訪了瑪利亞，她說對(duì)媽媽的模仿是她最早期的一些喜劇片段。在剛開始的時(shí)候，她這樣做是為了能讓自己與母親的關(guān)系保持一定的距離，得到一定的控制。

瑪利亞：對(duì)我來說，在人生的這段時(shí)光里，我脫離了我的家庭，或者說擺脫了他們希望我成為的樣子。就像我媽媽，我記得她說過——或者我曾聽到她說——當(dāng)然，她對(duì)自己那時(shí)說的話可能有不同的感悟，但是她說如果你不化妝……

（表演原聲片段）

瑪利亞：……親愛的，當(dāng)你不化妝的時(shí)候，看起來就像個(gè)精神病。所以現(xiàn)在，當(dāng)我回到家，我肯定都畫著濃厚的綠色眼影，嘴上涂著厚重的唇膏。呃？寶寶現(xiàn)在看起來漂亮吧，媽媽？

（笑）

瑪里琳·班福德：噢，她學(xué)我的聲音、語調(diào)和用詞，這真的讓我很傷腦筋。你懂的，她……

施皮格爾：那么你說過的那些話呢？我的意思是……

瑪里琳： 很大一部分都不是我所說的。我介意的是她學(xué)我說：“當(dāng)你不化妝的時(shí)候，看起來就像個(gè)神經(jīng)病”。

施皮格爾：嗯。

瑪里琳：我和她討論這事好幾回了——因?yàn)槲抑牢覜]有這樣說過。我說的是你看起來很沮喪。我的意思是，我記憶中是這樣的。相反的，她只記得她印象中的事。

施皮格爾：但是，瑪里琳看起來一點(diǎn)也沒有因?yàn)榕畠旱哪７露械嚼_，即使是那些她認(rèn)為對(duì)她說的話的錯(cuò)誤表達(dá)或者對(duì)她本人錯(cuò)誤的理解也是如此。她把這模仿看成是有用的。

瑪里琳：所以當(dāng)我說：“噢，我不認(rèn)為我說過這些”，然后我們就會(huì)開始討論這件事，所以最后是有收益的。但是我有些時(shí)候選擇了沉默，因?yàn)槲也淮_定我愿意或者有精力去討論這些事。

瑪利亞：你知道嗎，我認(rèn)為你不開心的真正原因是你36歲了，而你看起來就像36歲，這真的很糟糕。

施皮格爾：看著她對(duì)你的模仿，你有從自己身上了解到什么嗎？

瑪里琳：噢，有?。ㄐΓＮ蚁肫鹆宋业膵寢?。我媽媽堅(jiān)信你必須涂唇膏、在鼻子上抹粉。我想我從（瑪利亞的模仿中）也看到了那樣的自己，然后我說：“噢，不（笑）。我不想變成那個(gè)樣子。”但是，你又能怎樣呢？

施皮格爾：說到不可避免地做了你的母親——雖然瑪利亞·班福德開始是為了疏遠(yuǎn)她的媽媽而模仿她，最后卻有了相反的效果。她和媽媽更親近了。

瑪利亞：就像，想著她會(huì)如何說話就會(huì)讓我很振奮。我很喜歡她對(duì)生活有一定的看法——或者如果我——如果她不在我身邊，我也可以讓她在我身邊。我越長大，就越希望自己更像她。我希望我的模仿能夠融入——我長大后就變成了她（笑）。

施皮格爾：你真的希望這樣嗎？

瑪利亞：嗯。我可以完全變成瑪里琳·班福德，因?yàn)樗且粋€(gè)非?？蓯鄣娜?，你知道嗎？她總是精神煥發(fā)。就像有一次，她說：“噢，親愛的，我們準(zhǔn)備去——我們?cè)谕炼?，我本想打電話給你，因?yàn)楦舯诘木频曛鹆耍惆职咽鹿尸F(xiàn)場(chǎng)的視頻放到網(wǎng)上（譯者注：Vine是微軟公司開發(fā)的可拍攝、分享短視頻的應(yīng)用）。今晚我們要在市廣場(chǎng)吃飯，所有人都出去了……”

施皮格爾：而瑪里琳·班福德也以自己的方式從女兒對(duì)她的印象中有了意想不到的收獲。

瑪里琳：我想許多在我這個(gè)年齡——快到70歲的婦女，你懂的，都會(huì)感覺被忽視了。因此，當(dāng)你的女兒用那么美妙而有天賦的方式模仿你，就會(huì)讓你在某種程度上得到了永生。這在我們這個(gè)年紀(jì)是一件美好的事。