從穩(wěn)態(tài)到動態(tài)：國際設(shè)計組織的活化與更新

周榕，李巖，西蒙·帕森斯/ZHOU Rong, LI Yan, Simon Parsons

作者單位：周榕，清華大學(xué)建筑學(xué)院/ZHOU Rong, School of Architecture, Tsinghua University;

1 PTW部分合伙人合影（2017）

引言

本文由《世界建筑》與PTW事務(wù)所多位合伙人的對談?wù)x而成。本文觀點來自2018年11月16日，PTW悉尼董事西蒙·帕森斯，全球總經(jīng)理李巖與《世界建筑》副主編、清華大學(xué)副教授、建筑評論家周榕在上海璞麗酒店的對話，以及之后周榕教授與PTW多位資深董事的郵件筆錄。

通過郵件參與筆談的人員：凱瑟琳·樂（PTW設(shè)計總監(jiān)、室內(nèi)及酒店負(fù)責(zé)人），戴安娜·瓊斯（PTW執(zhí)行董事、醫(yī)療健康項目負(fù)責(zé)人），林文劍（PTW設(shè)計總監(jiān)、規(guī)劃與城市設(shè)計負(fù)責(zé)人），克雷格·海恩斯（PTW董事、技術(shù)總監(jiān)），西沃恩·麥克倫尼（PTW董事），謝曉龍（PTW副總經(jīng)理）

1 一個事務(wù)所的“基因定義”，澳洲地緣特質(zhì)與全球化

李巖：本期雜志聚焦PTW建筑事務(wù)所。之前我們也通過多封郵件來來回回分析了PTW的一些設(shè)計案例，在此基礎(chǔ)上，我們想和周榕先生探討的第一個問題是：對一家歷經(jīng)了130年的時間的澳洲設(shè)計企業(yè)，它的未來何去何從？

周榕：作為一個具有130年歷史的老牌建筑事務(wù)所，我們觀察到PTW在一個多世紀(jì)的進(jìn)化競爭中依然生機(jī)勃勃，必有其獨特的“優(yōu)勢基因”，這些“優(yōu)勢基因”可能支撐了PTW曾經(jīng)的百年成功。但在生存環(huán)境發(fā)生震蕩劇變的當(dāng)下，以及不確定性激增的未來，過去的“優(yōu)勢基因”是否仍然可以延續(xù)其傳統(tǒng)的“優(yōu)勢”？其中的某些不適應(yīng)部分是否需要被刪改？而某些原本居于劣勢的部分是否需要新基因的植入？這些可能是我們今天必須關(guān)注的、有趣、也有意義的話題。

西蒙·帕森斯（以下簡稱西蒙）：PTW事務(wù)所能夠歷經(jīng)一個多世紀(jì)的事業(yè)歷程，我們自己都感到驚訝。

感覺這個事業(yè)歷程好像比澳大利亞的現(xiàn)代建筑史還要長。一個明顯的事實是：在過去的10年中，悉尼和澳大利亞與亞洲的關(guān)聯(lián)度有了急劇的增長，澳洲和亞洲有了越來越緊密的文化伴生現(xiàn)象。澳洲與歐洲、澳洲與美國的文化關(guān)系，都不像現(xiàn)今澳洲和亞洲結(jié)合得更為有機(jī)。通過在澳洲的投資和移民，亞洲的混合文化正在對澳大利亞產(chǎn)生至關(guān)重要的影響，與此同時，澳洲的觀念正在通過亞洲走向世界。對于PTW這樣歷史悠久的澳洲事務(wù)所來說，這意味著不同尋常的新機(jī)遇。大約5年多之前，CCDI集團(tuán)為PTW架起了一座與亞洲文化更進(jìn)一步融合的橋梁，使得公司在中國大陸、中國臺灣、越南、中東的業(yè)務(wù)有了新的起色。公司的領(lǐng)導(dǎo)文化更加趨于年輕，PTW將成為比世界上其他公司與中國的工作關(guān)系更緊密的設(shè)計機(jī)構(gòu)。

李巖：所以周榕老師提到了“基因”這個比喻，是出于對于設(shè)計事務(wù)所的地緣特質(zhì)的某種定義？

周榕：不僅僅是地緣層面，我更樂意在組織層面探討這個話題。從生物科學(xué)的范疇看，“基因編輯”的本質(zhì)是人類通過“自我設(shè)計”，預(yù)先刪除個體的“劣勢基因”片斷、保留甚至植入“優(yōu)勢基因”片斷，從而使經(jīng)過基因編輯后的個體在未來與其他個體的競爭中獲得新的機(jī)遇。在我看來，“基因編輯”的思想與其說適用于人類個體，不如說更加適用于更為復(fù)雜的人類組織行為。對人類組織進(jìn)行“基因編輯”，還規(guī)避了“基因編輯”施之于人類個體所可能帶來的倫理風(fēng)險。建筑設(shè)計事務(wù)所，作為人類社會有代表意義的智力型工作組織，它應(yīng)該也可以遵從某些基因編輯的規(guī)則。

李巖：PTW的組織基因非常耐人尋味。一百多年前，詹姆斯·佩德爾與塞繆爾·索普是公司前身的兩個重要創(chuàng)始人物，而事實上，他們創(chuàng)始的建筑事務(wù)所并非只有PTW一支血脈。如今在墨爾本和中國，一些不錯的設(shè)計機(jī)構(gòu)也有明顯的“PT”痕跡。也就是說，很多公司認(rèn)了這個“血緣”，PTW只是其中歷史最為悠遠(yuǎn)的一支。我們和其他一些有同一溯源的公司一起，推動著澳洲建筑文化的混合發(fā)展，其中非常重要的一些特征，包括豐富的城市濱水空間體驗，對待歷史和當(dāng)下的更為積極入世的生活態(tài)度，都與歐洲有很大的不同。如今，澳洲公司與亞洲公司的混合發(fā)展，不同國籍的員工和客戶在一起，使得設(shè)計工作的起點和過程都變得富有變化。

2 1950年代的PTW建筑事務(wù)所一角

3 1970年代的PTW事務(wù)所一角

Introduction

This article is an excerpt from the conversation between ZHOU Rong, Deputy editor-in chief of World Architecture and several partners of PTW Architects. All the thoughts included in the article are excerpted from the conversation between Simon Parsons, Director of PTW Architects Sydney, LI Yan, General Manager, and ZHOU Rong, a famous architectural critic at The Puli Hotel and Spa in Shanghai, and the records of correspondences between ZHOU Rong and several senior directors at PTW Architects.

The article also receives support from the following people in the form of correspondences via email：Catherine Love (Design Director, and Head of Interior and Hospitality), Diane Jones (Executive Director of PTW Architects, and Head of Healthcare), Alex Lin (Design Director of PTW Architects, and Head of Planning and Urban Design), Craig Hines (Director and Technical Director of PTW Architects), Siobhan McInerney (Director of PTW Architects), Shawlon Hsieh (Deputy General Manager of PTW Architects).

1 Definition of PTW Architects' "Genes" and Australia's Geopolitical Traits and Globalisation

LI Yan: Today, let's talk about PTW Architects. For today's discussion, we have Simon, who flew here to Shanghai from Australia specially for the purpose of the discussion. Before the discussion, we have analysed PTW Architects' design practices by email. Today, the first question we would like to discuss with Mr. ZHOU Rong is where an Australian architecture firm will go after 130 years of design practice?

ZHOU Rong: PTW Architects is an established architecture firm with a history of 130 years. As we can notice, PTW Architects still thrives after more than 100 years of fierce competition, which is attributable to its unique "advantageous genes". While these "genes" sustain its success over the past century, we wonder whether they can help to further contribute to PTW Architects' future development, given violent fluctuations and changes in our current living environment, and a future of

4 周榕、李巖和西蒙·帕森斯對談

6.7 PTW新辦公室一角

mounting uncertainties. Is it necessary to delete some of the elements that are no longer compatible? Is it necessary to add new "genes" to address the parts that need improvement? These may be the interesting and meaningful elements that we must pay attention to.

Simon Parsons: I feel like 100 years' period is almost longer than the Australia Modern Architectural history. PTW have survived for such a long time because it is very edge up, always changing. If you look at what is happened in Sydney. In Australia, in last ten years, the connection with Asia has increased rapidly. There was so much more culture connection with Asia. So Australia has become, it was not only about US architecture or European architecture, it's about architecture from all over the world. It's different from being in Europe, it different from being in America, you get quite a mix of different culture. There is still significant changes and population mix in Australia. It's quite profound. The amount of investment in Australia, the mount of people moving to Australia, shows a very much turn toward Asia in that period. And that is the new period of PTW, which is what we focus on, particularly with the stronger connection with CCDI (about 5 years ago). That is a strong bridge to Asia, and a great position to build on. I think we are working most effective in different countries. In terms of the way we are going, as young leadership, we are trying to bring the Australia approach to Asia. We are trying to work with China together. We are trying to use the identity which is different to any other firm to make us relevant within China.

6 PTW在2017年搬入新辦公地址，西蒙·帕森斯在指導(dǎo)設(shè)計工作

LI Yan: Mr. ZHOU used "genes" as a metaphor just now. Why did you use the metaphor? Is it about defining the geographical attributes of the architecture firm?

ZHOU Rong: More than just about the geographical attributes. It is more about the organisation itself. The concept of "gene editing" has quickly become a hot topic. In essence, "gene editing" is the deletion of deficient genes, and preservation and even insertion of advantage genes that can contribute to strengths through "self-design". In this way, geneedited individuals can gain some evolutionary in future competition with other people. In my opinion, the idea of "gene editing" is more applicable to organisations than to the individual. The "gene editing" of organisations is also free of the ethical risks that "genetic editing" of human individuals can give rise to. Architectural design firms, as a representative form of intelligence-based work organisations of human society, should also follow certain genetic editing rules.

西蒙: 但是在當(dāng)下的國際環(huán)境中，PTW事務(wù)所的確遇到了不小的困難和挑戰(zhàn)，我們也一度懷疑過去的優(yōu)勢是否在今天還依然適用。周榕教授對此有怎樣的見解？

周榕：過去的20年間，國際建筑事務(wù)所在中國獲得的一系列成功，其優(yōu)勢基礎(chǔ)無非來自于三個方面——時間優(yōu)勢、空間優(yōu)勢、和組織優(yōu)勢?！皶r間優(yōu)勢”，是指他們更早接受了現(xiàn)代建筑運動的洗禮，積累了更長時間的現(xiàn)代設(shè)計經(jīng)驗，例如PTW顯然具備這樣的優(yōu)勢；“空間優(yōu)勢”，是指他們身處發(fā)達(dá)國家和地區(qū)，獲得了更好的設(shè)計生態(tài)位，澳洲的基因?qū)TW的成功也起到了一定的作用；“組織優(yōu)勢”，是指PTW比國內(nèi)設(shè)計機(jī)構(gòu)有更加成熟的組織體系和運營制度，以及大量被組織所固納、傳承的隱性知識、企業(yè)文化和品牌聲譽(yù)。

然而隨著中國建筑市場的飛速進(jìn)步，國際建筑事

8 PTW在悉尼為中國客戶萬達(dá)集團(tuán)設(shè)計的超高層項目（2017）

10 在阿布扎比Al Raha Beach的城市設(shè)計中，PTW展現(xiàn)出精湛的濱水社區(qū)空間設(shè)計能力（2005）

務(wù)所的上述三方面優(yōu)勢在迅速喪失：在現(xiàn)代化程度上，較世界上其他國家和地區(qū)的國際化大都市而言，中國的一線城市可能更為發(fā)達(dá)，對未來建筑圖景的想象與營建也更為激進(jìn)；在地緣競爭中，中國也越來越成為經(jīng)濟(jì)和文化全球化的熱點乃至中心地區(qū)，由此導(dǎo)致“國家自信”與“國民自信”的急劇上升，以往發(fā)達(dá)國家建筑事務(wù)所頭頂?shù)摹暗赜蚬猸h(huán)”早已黯淡衰微；在組織競爭中，無論從企業(yè)規(guī)模、工程經(jīng)驗還是生產(chǎn)效率上，外來的國際建筑事務(wù)所不一定敵得過有高度適應(yīng)性和靈活性的本土設(shè)計機(jī)構(gòu)。

李巖：這里有個原因就是PTW跟著現(xiàn)代建筑的發(fā)展持續(xù)了100年，很穩(wěn)定反而很難突破。中國卻從來沒有跟現(xiàn)代建筑同步過?，F(xiàn)代主義、后現(xiàn)代、解構(gòu)主義同時進(jìn)入中國，亂進(jìn)亂出，所以變成現(xiàn)在這個局面。我們研究PTW的時候發(fā)現(xiàn)，詹姆斯·佩德爾曾經(jīng)在20世紀(jì)初特地帶領(lǐng)團(tuán)隊去美國訪學(xué)，把美國好的設(shè)計帶回來。今天的PTW也是致力于把自己融入中國。至于中方和澳方如何各取所長，相互融合，這就很像您說的“基因編輯”。

周榕：是的，這樣的時代環(huán)境下，較其他國際建筑事務(wù)所，澳洲的老牌事務(wù)所PTW或許面臨著更加嚴(yán)峻的挑戰(zhàn)。一方面，PTW本就不以激進(jìn)的形式創(chuàng)新見長；另一方面，澳大利亞所帶來的國家文化想象空間也在急劇縮窄。剩下唯一可供挖掘的優(yōu)勢或許只能來自于“組織”層面，即中國最大的民營設(shè)計機(jī)構(gòu)CCDI對PTW的收購以及品牌再造，有可能成為一項對既有設(shè)計組織的“基因創(chuàng)新工程”：改造舊基因，植入新基因，并在基因編輯重組的基礎(chǔ)上創(chuàng)造一個設(shè)計行業(yè)的“新物種”。

9 PTW為中國客戶在天津設(shè)計的濱水空間規(guī)劃TEDA Tianjin Waterfront MasterPlan（2013）

11 PTW為阿布扎比Al Raha Beach遞交的大規(guī)模城市設(shè)計，目前大部分已經(jīng)實施（2005）

2 設(shè)計機(jī)構(gòu)作為創(chuàng)新社群組織的動態(tài)性和多義性

西蒙: 相對于澳洲的生活方式，建筑設(shè)計是一項艱巨的工作。PTW這么多年不斷前行的原因之一，在于公司自身的不斷演變，這種變化使得PTW面對社會需求和客戶期望時，做到非常敏銳地應(yīng)對。公司的確有很長的歷史痕跡，但我們更需要知道當(dāng)下應(yīng)該如何運營。所以我會感覺公司自身的動態(tài)演變是必須的。

李巖：在我們的具體業(yè)務(wù)開展過程中，中國的客戶、中國的公司都非?！皠討B(tài)”，這一點，澳洲可能比歐洲國家的建筑師更具備適應(yīng)性。

周榕：澳洲本身處于歐洲和美國“現(xiàn)代建筑話語權(quán)力中心”（也就是英語體系的文化中心）的邊緣，前些年，從荷蘭到瑞士、從西班牙到斯堪的納維亞三國，“非英語”、“非中心”的設(shè)計力量不止一次地擾動著英語體系的中心。相比之下，澳洲的設(shè)計更像是溫和的延續(xù)和維護(hù)著中心體系的權(quán)威性的存在。

我們是不是可以改變一下觀念：被CCDI集團(tuán)收購之后的PTW不再是一個本分的澳洲公司，它有很多可能性，工作方式和組織形式都是多元的，而且應(yīng)該是動態(tài)的。如果僅以澳洲的視角來看這家公司，它過去某些“相對保守”的設(shè)計案例不一定能應(yīng)對變化之中的中國市場。不論中國或非洲，快速迭代的城市化永遠(yuǎn)不可能以悉尼的方式加以呈現(xiàn)，雖然我們知道那樣的方式是經(jīng)典的、美好的。

12 PTW為阿布扎比的利姆島（Al Reem Island）帶來了具有前瞻性的超高層酒店設(shè)計方案（2006）

LI Yan: The new issue for the world architecture magazine, we put the topic "distance covered, journey ahead" because this firm has been through 130 years' history, has been through so many different ownerships, can be dated back to the PT (James Peddle & Samuel Thorp) family, which divided into so many different branches. They all have the same origin, but going forward, PTW is just one of the PT families. There seems to be something interesting going on for the quality of architecture, quality of design with the mix of the inspiration of the clients both in Australia and China. And looking widely, it is quite different perspective, not exactly the same as the Europe. In term of the question of how to bring lifestyle, Australian has brought waterfront experience, thinking about the relationship between history and present. It indeed has different impacts on the way that design starts, and also has the influences from Chinese clients and Chinese firms, quiet interesting dynamic among offices. This seems to be quiet unique for the Australia firm as well. Those are the interesting things we want to talk about.

Simon Parsons: However, in the current international environment, the firm has indeed encountered many difficulties and challenges. We also doubted whether the advantages we boasted in the past still apply today. Mr. ZHOU Rong, can you share your thoughts on this question with us?

ZHOU Rong: In the past two decades, international architecture firms achieved a series of successes in China. Their advantages are based on time, space and organisational structure. They are exposed to modern architecture movements much earlier than local firms, and they have longer experience in modern design. For example, PTW Architects is one of such firms. Besides, they are located in developed regions and countries where the ecological environment is much better. The Australian gene is also instrumental in the success of PTW Architects. What's more, international architecture firms have more robust organisational systems and operating procedures. They have also established a complete set of standard design processes, and amassed intangible knowledge, corporate culture, and brand reputation that can be incorporated and inherited.

However, with the rapid advances of the architecture market in China, international architecture firms are quickly losing the abovementioned advantages. In terms of modernisation, tier-1 cities in China are perhaps even more developed than international metropolises of other countries and regions in the world. They are also envisaging and building future architecture in a more bold manner. In the geopolitical competition, China is rising to be a hotspot and even a centre of economic and cultural globalization, giving rise to the soaring of the "confidence" of the nation and its people. The "regional halo" that architecture firms in developed countries used to be crowned with has long since faded. In today's competition, international architecture firms are not necessarily more competitive than highly adaptable and flexible local design firms in terms of business size, design experience and productivity.

LI Yan: It's because PTW Architects has been running for more than 100 years, along with the development of modern architecture. The organisation is now very stable, and it is difficult it to break new grounds. The development of modern architecture in China has never been synchronised the rest of the world. Modernism, post-modernism, and deconstructivism simultaneously cracked China, leading to where we are now. We have studied PTW Architects, and found that James Peddle visited America with his team members in the early 20th century, and introduced good design practices to Australia. Now, PTW Architects is also working hard to adapt itself to Chinese market. The process of how Chinese and Australian architects learn from one another and combine their strengths is very much like "gene editing" you mentioned.

ZHOU Rong: Yes, in such a context, Australia's established firm PTW Architects may face tougher challenges than any other international architecture firm.

2 Design Firms as Dynamic and Innovative Organisations in the Form of Social Groups and Endowed with Multiple Meanings

Simon Parsons: Australia is some place good for living. With such change around you, architecture is a tough business, so the company has to be very sensitive about what are people looking for. When we are running the company, it is always about what we need to do now. If you are always reacting, there is no way to own a company identity. The focus for PTW has always to be on making sense to our clients, understanding their issues.

LI Yan: During our design practice, we find that Chinese clients and firms are highly "dynamic". In this regard, Australian architects are perhaps more adaptable than those in European countries.

ZHOU Rong: Australia itself is at the margin of the "discourse power centre of modern architecture", or the "culture centre of English language" in Europe and America. In recent years, non-English, or non-centric design powerhouses from Holland, Switzerland, Spain, and Scandinavia have been disrupting the centre of the English language system again and again. In comparison, Australian design practices demonstrate a meek continuation and maintenance of the authority of the central system.

Maybe we can change our mindset a little bit, given that PTW Architects is no longer a conservative Australian firm after CCDI acquired it. It is a dynamic firm boasting many possibilities now, with diversified forms of work and organisation. If you still view it as a merely Australian firm, you might think that some of its "rather conservative" design practices may not suit the ever-changing Chinese market. However, whether in China or Africa, it's impossible to design and build things the way architects did in Sydney, given the accelerated urbanisation process, although we know those expressions of architecture are timeless and beautiful.

One of the questions we have been thinking about is that during the period from the 1960s to the 1970s when the Sydney Opera House appeared, Sydney was even more radical than Europe and America in terms of construction and expansion. Now, it's in its advanced years now, and PTW Architects, a witness to the youth of Sydney, is also getting old, what we should do in the future?

15.16悉尼88-Christie-Street項目進(jìn)一步展現(xiàn)了都市棲居、工作與娛樂活動的混合性（2017）

我們自己一直在思考的一個問題是：在悉尼歌劇院出現(xiàn)的20世紀(jì)六七十年代，這座城市的建設(shè)開拓比歐洲美國更為激進(jìn)，如今它步入中老年，那么伴隨悉尼渡過青春歲月的PTW，自己也有點老了，未來怎么辦？

周榕：顯然是要吸收全球青年營養(yǎng)，與最具成長力的中國合作，適應(yīng)當(dāng)下發(fā)展中國家（中國大陸、越南、非洲）的文化需求，以一種國際化的組織再次“活”起來。

謝曉龍：目前在PTW悉尼辦公室的團(tuán)隊中，有相當(dāng)比例的亞裔員工。在越南的兩個PTW分公司中，國際化與本土化交織的現(xiàn)象也非常明顯。

李巖：在被CCDI收購的2013年，PTW不管是從財務(wù)上，還是從個人人員的狀況上，正處于“價值低位”，但這里面其實也是機(jī)會。如今，PTW日漸起色的設(shè)計工作坊中，最佳的創(chuàng)意已經(jīng)不是來自悉尼團(tuán)隊，而是更年輕的亞洲建筑師，這是一個從穩(wěn)態(tài)到動態(tài)的過程，也是對我們經(jīng)驗里的中外合作組織固有模式的解構(gòu)。事實上近兩年，我們看到很多著名的同行公司，例如CRTKL、Aedas都在大量啟用亞洲本地的資源，大家其實都有同感。

周榕：未來的社會，社群型公司也許更能吸引年輕人的加入。有才能的個體往往是“多義”的，公司只是其中一種屬性。傳統(tǒng)的設(shè)計事務(wù)所組織形式必須做出變革，現(xiàn)在的全球市場提供了一個很好地機(jī)會，新的機(jī)會就在這里。100多年的歷史，PTW是一個相當(dāng)穩(wěn)定的結(jié)構(gòu)，所以還是需要讓他們發(fā)揮穩(wěn)態(tài)結(jié)構(gòu)具有的長處，保留文化差異性，保留創(chuàng)造力上不同的側(cè)面。在一個好的合作機(jī)制的前提下，讓PTW成一個國際品牌，也就是“多國部隊”的概念。

李巖：我們現(xiàn)在的領(lǐng)導(dǎo)層面，那些特別突出的，除了澳洲和亞洲，也有不小比重的丹麥建筑師、葡萄牙建筑師、越南建筑師等等，比起幾十年前單純的澳洲公司，新的國際化局面正在逐漸形成。

3 國際化設(shè)計服務(wù)中的產(chǎn)品觀念和方法更新

周榕：現(xiàn)在我們回到設(shè)計業(yè)務(wù)本身來看PTW的設(shè)計。我們一開始的話題是百年澳洲設(shè)計企業(yè)何去何從，經(jīng)過這番解析之后，我們可以討論一下更為貼切的話題：如果存在一個集群化、國際化、從澳洲基因走向多義組織的現(xiàn)代設(shè)計事務(wù)所，它會是怎樣的面貌？

李巖：我們正在用三個關(guān)鍵詞定義新時代的PTW設(shè)計實踐：濱水、更新、運動。這三個關(guān)鍵詞呈現(xiàn)一個遞進(jìn)關(guān)系：濱水，是PTW來自悉尼的歷史經(jīng)驗，對有濱水特質(zhì)的城市空間進(jìn)行設(shè)計；更新，則是基于現(xiàn)代都市發(fā)展的必然操作，包括各類改擴(kuò)建，城市更新等等；運動，不僅代表了PTW在體育建筑領(lǐng)域的優(yōu)勢，也是未來城市的某種動態(tài)前瞻觀念。這些提煉，是基于內(nèi)部組織（設(shè)計企業(yè)）與外部環(huán)境（城市發(fā)展）雙重醞釀的結(jié)論。

周榕：我特別關(guān)注您提到的城市更新這個話題，現(xiàn)在城市面臨巨大的更新機(jī)遇。這個更新不是因為城市老了，而是因為互聯(lián)網(wǎng)的沖擊，城市既有空間在迅速地、相對地“過時”，過去的復(fù)雜度相對降低，但彼此連接的程度在不斷攀升。

李巖： PTW在悉尼不斷地推翻過去1950年代和1960年代我們自己設(shè)計的房子。您會發(fā)現(xiàn)在130年內(nèi)，有些房子已經(jīng)經(jīng)歷了第三次改造。

林文劍：從城市觀念上看，城市更新是一個很大的系統(tǒng)，PTW并不試圖用統(tǒng)一的設(shè)計語言來應(yīng)對。PTW可以從時間和空間多個維度上，證明自己在城市的子項目系統(tǒng)里面的研究貢獻(xiàn)，我們的業(yè)績建構(gòu)起一個城市更新的知識框架以及嚴(yán)密的應(yīng)對策略。

西蒙：PTW的策略是有節(jié)制的、高完成度的設(shè)計。與目前我們在中國市場上見到的一些快餐式的設(shè)計有本質(zhì)的區(qū)別。我們在澳洲辦公室的技術(shù)體系負(fù)責(zé)為亞洲、非洲以及中東的項目提供實施保障，而在中國，體育建筑和運動設(shè)施，一直是PTW最重要的產(chǎn)品優(yōu)勢之一。

李巖：在產(chǎn)品化的問題上，PTW已經(jīng)建立了酒店、醫(yī)療、體育、居住、商業(yè)等多個面向全球的業(yè)務(wù)單元。把一個建成物的定義放在了一個客戶需求的語境里面，這個思維本身是從PTW與CCDI合作的水立方項目延展過來的。PTW是這個項目的第一設(shè)計版權(quán)單位，但是CCDI把水立方變成一個體育產(chǎn)品來做，水立方的經(jīng)驗被成功復(fù)制到了其他的項目，但是PTW沒有這樣做，結(jié)果錯失了一些機(jī)遇。這就是動態(tài)的產(chǎn)品思維和穩(wěn)態(tài)的業(yè)務(wù)思維的差異?，F(xiàn)在變成“一家人”之后，我們反過來學(xué)習(xí)CCDI的產(chǎn)品理念來擴(kuò)大我們的業(yè)務(wù)版圖。

周榕：好的，我們期待本期專輯PTW呈現(xiàn)的精彩作品和觀念，期待看到PTW走出更遠(yuǎn)的距離。等到150周年時，咱們再來一次有趣的對話。□（感謝CCDI集團(tuán)艾俠先生對PTW系列訪談的策劃和促動。）

ZHOU Rong: Obviously, it is necessary to absorb rejuvenating nutrients globally, and work with China of the biggest growth potentials. It's also important to adapt to the cultural needs of developing countries and regions, such as mainland China, Vietnam, and Africa, to get reborn as a globalized organisation.

Shawlon Hsieh: Now, we have a considerable proportion of Asian employees on the team at the Sydney Office of PTW Architects. Of the two PTW branches in Vietnam, we also notice a mixture of internationalization and localization trends.

LI Yan: When it was acquired by CCDI in 2013, PTW Architects was at low ebb in terms of financial standing and manpower. Actually, it indicated opportunities. Now, the design workshop of PTW Architects is picking up, with innovative ideas coming from younger Asian architects instead of the Sydney team. This marks a transition from a steady state to a more dynamic one, and is how a Sinoforeign partnership should look like according to our experience. In fact, in recent two years, we have seen many distinctive counterparts, such as CRTKL and Aedas, starting to rely heavily on local resources in Asia. It's now an inevitable trend.

ZHOU Rong: In the future society, companies in the form of social groups may be more attractive to young people. Talented individuals often have different labels, and companies are just one of them. Traditional architecture firms must implement changes. Now, the global market offers us new opportunities that are great. After more than 100 years of development, PTW Architects has a stable structure with unique advantages, so it's necessary to maintain such strengths, and encourage cultural differences to enable different forms of innovation. A good form of cooperation can develop PTW Architects into an international brand, or a "multinational force".

LI Yan: In terms of our current leadership, quite a few particularly distinctive architects are from Denmark, Portugal, and Vietnam, in addition to those from Australia and Asia. Compared to what it was decades ago, PTW Architects is emerging to be a multinational firm.

3 Updated Product Concepts and Approaches of International Design Practices

ZHOU Rong: Now let's shift our attention back to the design business itself. At the beginning of our discussion, we talked about where PTW Architects, an established Australian architecture firm, should go. After all that we have discussed, we can now focus on a more relevant topic: What will PTW Architects look like after its change from an Australian business to a modern international architecture firm featuring teamwork among people from different nations and a more flexible and dynamic form of organisation?

LI Yan: We use three keywords to define PTW Architects' design practice of the new era: Waterfront, Renewal, and Sports. These three keywords denote a progressive process. Waterfront refers to PTW Architects' design of waterfront spaces in Sydney in the past, while renewal indicates an inevitable trend as a result of the development of modern cities, including renovation and expansion of urban spaces for renewal, and sports represent PTW Architects' superiority in the field of sport facilities and signals an interesting vision for cities in the future. We come up with these words after our analysis of the organisation itself and urban development in the external environment.

ZHOU Rong: I am particularly interested in the topic of urban renewal you mentioned just now. Now, cities face huge opportunities for renewal. Such needs for renewal are not merely a product of cities getting older. The Internet is also a driver, and is causing existing spaces in cities to quickly get "outdated". While complexity is being reduced, needs for connection are growing.

LI Yan: PTW Architects is constantly changing what they designed and built back in the 1950s and the 1960s. It's notable that some of the buildings have undergone three facelifts.

Alex Lin: Urban renewal is a broad concept. PTW Architects never approaches it with a single design language. It can demonstrate its contributions to the sub-system of urban design from multiple dimensions such as time and space. Our design practice can help construct a knowledge framework of urban renewal and produce rigorous solutions.

Simon Parsons: PTW Architects' design strategy is precise control to ensure high levels of completion, which is fundamentally different from some of the short-lived designs we have seen in Chinese market. Our technical system in the Australian office provides support and assurance for the implementation of designs in Asia, Africa and the Middle East. In China, designing sports architecture and sports facilities has been one of the most important competitive edges of PTW Architects.

LI Yan: For different product categories such as hospitality, healthcare, sports, residential, and commercial projects, PTW Architects has set up specific business units operating globally. Our doctrine is to define a construction in the context of client needs, which is derived from PTW Architects' collaboration with CCDI to design the Water Cube. PTW Architects is the major designer of the Beijing National Aquatics Centre, but CCDI is the pioneer in developing it into a sports products and applying the design experience to other projects. PTW Architects missed some opportunities as a result of its failure to do so. This is because PTW approached business with a fixed mindset, whereas CCDI thought creatively to develop a product series. Now, we are a big family now. We are learning from CCDI's product concepts to expand our business presence.

ZHOU Rong: Ok, we look forward to seeing more brilliant ideas and practices from PTW Architects and its further growth. When PTW Architects celebrates its 150th birthday, I hope we can have one more interesting dialogue like this.□(We would like to thank Mr. AI Xia from CCDI for his planning and facilitation of the interviews with PTW Architects.)