人物訪談：巴斯· 布林克

1.您成立70F建筑事務(wù)所已有17年，能不能和我們分享一下，您是如何保持對(duì)建筑設(shè)計(jì)的極大熱情？

沒(méi)錯(cuò)，建筑事務(wù)所已經(jīng)成立很多年了。我想關(guān)鍵在于，建筑代表的是一種生活方式。要做我就專心投入地做，要么就不做。這是設(shè)計(jì)好作品的核心要素，也是取得好成績(jī)所必備的。我們這里有固定的核心團(tuán)隊(duì)，也有一小部分年輕的實(shí)習(xí)生在這兒實(shí)習(xí)。因此，我們可以不斷拓展新的主題，捕捉不同時(shí)間階段的重點(diǎn)。建筑是一個(gè)不斷變化的動(dòng)態(tài)領(lǐng)域，需要我們不斷地去適應(yīng)，去改變，去傾聽，去變革，去掌控。

2.您一般是如何開始一個(gè)設(shè)計(jì)的，設(shè)計(jì)理念往往是源自哪里呢？

所有項(xiàng)目開始之前，我們都會(huì)與客戶進(jìn)行深入的會(huì)談和探討。最重要的就是要收集我們所需要的全部信息。不僅僅是固定數(shù)據(jù)（例如：3間臥室、2間浴室等），建筑上的構(gòu)想和空間布置方面的要求，同樣重要。問(wèn)題是，客戶很難描述清楚自己所需要的，或者表達(dá)自己腦海中的空間感。這也就需要我們思維靈活，富于想象。我們要通過(guò)精準(zhǔn)的提問(wèn)，去挖掘客戶內(nèi)心的想法。確定設(shè)計(jì)理念是整個(gè)過(guò)程中最為重要的環(huán)節(jié)，同時(shí)也是最花費(fèi)時(shí)間的。設(shè)計(jì)理念是各個(gè)項(xiàng)目的支柱，會(huì)影響到后面每一個(gè)階段；后期如果出現(xiàn)疑問(wèn)，或者找不到好的設(shè)計(jì)思路時(shí)，往往需要回頭參考設(shè)計(jì)理念。比如，在Duivenvoorde游客中心項(xiàng)目中，我們足足花了6個(gè)星期的時(shí)間來(lái)尋找設(shè)計(jì)理念，經(jīng)過(guò)反復(fù)的推敲，討論，起草，和修訂，終于找到了滿意的答案。然而，客戶卻不太理解我們的理念，因?yàn)槟菚r(shí)候還沒(méi)有太多能體現(xiàn)這一理念的東西。只有整個(gè)建筑竣工之后，客戶才真正理解其含義。

3.在整個(gè)職業(yè)生涯中，您還曾參與過(guò)建筑學(xué)教育，那么您向?qū)W生傳遞的是怎樣的建筑觀呢？

很榮幸成為世界多所大學(xué)的客座教授。在建筑領(lǐng)域，教書育人是我最熱愛的工作之一。在大學(xué)里，你會(huì)遇到很多極具天賦的年輕人，他們有著獨(dú)到的眼光，常常提出有深度的問(wèn)題，很有意思。我希望把我所知道的都教給他們。而在這個(gè)過(guò)程中，我自己也受益匪淺。在課堂上，最重要的是要學(xué)會(huì)問(wèn)問(wèn)題。學(xué)會(huì)如何準(zhǔn)確的向客戶提問(wèn)，向項(xiàng)目提問(wèn)，最重要的是，向自己提問(wèn)。比如，我的設(shè)計(jì)思路和設(shè)計(jì)方法想表達(dá)什么，為什么這么設(shè)計(jì)？在盧布爾雅那大學(xué)（斯洛文尼亞）的時(shí)候，我曾經(jīng)讓學(xué)生們?cè)O(shè)計(jì)一座“寧?kù)o教堂”，讓人們可以在城市中體驗(yàn)，甚至是購(gòu)買一片寧?kù)o。先不說(shuō)建筑效果，學(xué)生們首先要做的是理解并深入思考寧?kù)o這個(gè)詞在當(dāng)代的含義。我的課堂上總會(huì)有大量討論和交流時(shí)間。繪圖簡(jiǎn)單，思路難尋。在繪制圖紙之前，我們需要進(jìn)行認(rèn)真思考，反復(fù)討論。

4.您的許多建筑作品體量不大，造型簡(jiǎn)潔，但在外表皮的選材和設(shè)計(jì)上卻頗為關(guān)注，能談?wù)勀侨绾翁幚斫ㄖ砥さ膯幔?/h2>

對(duì)我們而言，體量不是最重要的。所有建筑都以理念為基礎(chǔ)，進(jìn)行建筑環(huán)境和設(shè)計(jì)的選擇。對(duì)每個(gè)建筑而言，困難的是要確定最佳設(shè)計(jì)方案、平面布置圖、以及建筑物正面解決方案。此外，我們?cè)O(shè)計(jì)的建筑是綜合考量所有建筑參數(shù)的成果。所以，建筑表皮不僅僅是建筑表皮，而是一個(gè)完整流程的效果體現(xiàn)，與其它方面也息息相關(guān)。一般而言，您所說(shuō)的建筑表皮正是建筑風(fēng)格的體現(xiàn)。所以對(duì)我們所設(shè)計(jì)的建筑至關(guān)重要。建筑正面所選用的材料，其材質(zhì)和使用方式，是建筑風(fēng)格的總體表現(xiàn)。但在選擇正面用料之前，還需要進(jìn)行嚴(yán)謹(jǐn)深入的研究，以確定建筑正面的最終方案。在這方面，絕對(duì)不能隨心所欲，其對(duì)整個(gè)建筑效果的影響遠(yuǎn)超過(guò)我們?nèi)庋鬯吹降摹?/p>

5.您認(rèn)為“越是簡(jiǎn)單的設(shè)計(jì)，越需要時(shí)間使設(shè)計(jì)精確”，能具體和我們談?wù)勅绾巫尯?jiǎn)潔的造型更精確嗎？

要達(dá)到簡(jiǎn)潔的效果，就需要大量的工作，確實(shí)如此。相比而言，建造審美復(fù)雜的建筑則容易很多。其中一個(gè)問(wèn)題就是精確性；在我看來(lái)，要做到精確，需要對(duì)每個(gè)已知的建筑元素進(jìn)行推敲，我們?cè)诠ぷ髦芯褪沁@樣做的。比如，建筑正面采用的插釘術(shù)，或者主梁等子系統(tǒng)的建造，都要仔細(xì)推敲，謹(jǐn)慎選擇。而對(duì)于這些，建造商通常會(huì)隨意選擇。比如我們?cè)?008年巴塞羅納設(shè)計(jì)建筑節(jié)上獲獎(jiǎng)的Sheepstable項(xiàng)目，所有必要的建筑零件，包括建筑正面的支撐板，都經(jīng)過(guò)謹(jǐn)慎考量，以確保其位置的精確性。讓建造商抓狂的是，這些小問(wèn)題竟然對(duì)最終效果至關(guān)重要。另一個(gè)問(wèn)題是審美上的簡(jiǎn)潔。外觀上的簡(jiǎn)潔并沒(méi)有固定的模式。在開始的時(shí)候，或者處理偏差的時(shí)候，都需要有具體的設(shè)計(jì)方案來(lái)確保與整體外觀的融合性。我們需要制定具體的設(shè)計(jì)方案，但可能不會(huì)展示出來(lái)。所有簡(jiǎn)潔效果的實(shí)現(xiàn)都并非偶然。

6.您的許多項(xiàng)目都在荷蘭，荷蘭的地域文化和氣候特征對(duì)您的設(shè)計(jì)有怎樣的影響呢？

在荷蘭，氣候條件和預(yù)算是關(guān)鍵因素。在這里往往需要大量的絕緣材料，因而預(yù)算也會(huì)比較高，如果沒(méi)有這個(gè)問(wèn)題，我們?cè)诤商m的項(xiàng)目會(huì)輕松很多。另外，荷蘭的濕度也常常造成材料使用方面的困難。但我們也有收獲——學(xué)會(huì)了如何通過(guò)方案上的創(chuàng)新來(lái)達(dá)到預(yù)期效果，同時(shí)控制好成本。這需要有充足的知識(shí)儲(chǔ)備，而我們多年以來(lái)積累的專業(yè)技術(shù)知識(shí)就派上了用場(chǎng)。選用的建筑材料主要是木材和砌磚，都是典型的荷蘭建筑材料，尤其是砌磚。然而荷蘭建筑業(yè)主要采用標(biāo)準(zhǔn)方案或過(guò)去用過(guò)的方案來(lái)處理這些材料，建筑商發(fā)現(xiàn)很難改變他們的固定模式。我們一般會(huì)再三考量這些建筑方法，然后說(shuō)服他們嘗試新的方案。要做到這一點(diǎn)，簡(jiǎn)單來(lái)說(shuō)就需要“了解你的材料”?；蛘?，就像我常常和學(xué)生們開玩笑地說(shuō)，不是我吹牛，我只是懂得多……

總之，不同的國(guó)家有不同的情況。比如，在意大利托斯卡納區(qū)附近的奢華度假屋項(xiàng)目中，關(guān)鍵的是要了解當(dāng)?shù)卣伪尘?，在正確的地方認(rèn)識(shí)正確的人。再比如在伊朗，溝通成了關(guān)鍵問(wèn)題，不僅僅因?yàn)檎Z(yǔ)言不通，更重要的是當(dāng)?shù)厝说谋硎隹傆泻芏嘌酝庵?，令人難以琢磨。在進(jìn)行伯利茲城精品海島度假村時(shí)，我們要將建筑材料從伯利茲城海運(yùn)到小島，為了減輕運(yùn)輸壓力，同時(shí)抵御颶風(fēng)，我們需要在45分鐘左右將材料運(yùn)至目的地，所以我們選擇的是輕型建筑材料。

7.您對(duì)中國(guó)當(dāng)代建筑有什么看法？如果有機(jī)會(huì)的話，您想在中國(guó)開展什么項(xiàng)目呢？

我印象里，中國(guó)的建筑一般規(guī)模比較大，建筑物數(shù)量也很多，這一點(diǎn)比較有意思。中國(guó)的當(dāng)代建筑發(fā)展水平很高，我一直在想，應(yīng)該怎樣才能在這樣一個(gè)人口稠密的國(guó)家開展項(xiàng)目。中國(guó)在城市規(guī)劃和建筑方面肯定是花費(fèi)了大量精力，這也是我認(rèn)為不可思議的地方。我們將很愿意在中國(guó)開展私人住宅、公寓大樓、設(shè)計(jì)酒店等項(xiàng)目。目前我們事務(wù)所主要專注于后者，也就是設(shè)計(jì)酒店或者稱之為精品酒店。我們發(fā)現(xiàn)節(jié)假日期間，人們的活動(dòng)方式和出行方式都有很大變化。這是我們想要進(jìn)一步調(diào)查的，我們希望以此為基礎(chǔ)，可以制定出前沿的創(chuàng)新性酒店設(shè)計(jì)理念。

8.我們知道您還有許多室內(nèi)設(shè)計(jì)作品，您是如何通過(guò)材料與色彩來(lái)體現(xiàn)室內(nèi)空間特色的呢？

沒(méi)錯(cuò)，除了建筑設(shè)計(jì)之外，我們也進(jìn)行室內(nèi)設(shè)計(jì)，比如，位于阿姆斯特丹的Acibadem國(guó)際醫(yī)療中心。在某種程度上來(lái)說(shuō)，室內(nèi)設(shè)計(jì)和建筑設(shè)計(jì)是一樣的。都需要有創(chuàng)新性，都以設(shè)計(jì)本身為核心。但相比而言，室內(nèi)設(shè)計(jì)更注重細(xì)節(jié)，精確性要求更高。室內(nèi)設(shè)計(jì)在材料和紋理的選擇上要求更高，因?yàn)槭覂?nèi)設(shè)計(jì)你可以近距離感受得到，如果效果好，甚至?xí)橹鸷场５绻皇褂眉y理，那么設(shè)計(jì)效果很容易會(huì)黯然失色。要達(dá)到材料與色彩之間的和諧，讓人有“賓至如歸”的感覺，尤其是住宅或酒店的室內(nèi)設(shè)計(jì)。我們可能傾向于選擇極簡(jiǎn)主義設(shè)計(jì)。設(shè)計(jì)應(yīng)該突出功能性和空間性，同時(shí)又不會(huì)讓人覺得像在電影里一樣，所有設(shè)計(jì)環(huán)節(jié)都要認(rèn)真仔細(xì)。這也是為什么我們要實(shí)現(xiàn)萬(wàn)能設(shè)計(jì)，從外套到車鑰匙的擺放位置，我們都會(huì)考慮到。一般客戶找到我們的時(shí)候，會(huì)跟我們講很多很多想法，而這些想法并不一定適用。我們要做的就是將客戶所提出的想法都融合到同一個(gè)設(shè)計(jì)作品中。因?yàn)樾枰浞至私夂妥鹬乜蛻舻男枨?，我們一般?huì)與客戶進(jìn)行很多次的商討。很多地方我們都會(huì)為客戶量身定制，不放過(guò)任何小的細(xì)節(jié)，哪怕是一個(gè)壁櫥。比如我們?cè)O(shè)計(jì)的Villa Frenay，就很好地體現(xiàn)了園藝與住宅、空間與細(xì)節(jié)的和諧美。要給出好的設(shè)計(jì)方法，需要具有創(chuàng)新能力，同時(shí)要能夠切身體會(huì)客戶的想法和需求。

9.能和我們分享一下您從業(yè)以來(lái)遇到的最具挑戰(zhàn)性的項(xiàng)目嗎？

我想到目前為止，最具挑戰(zhàn)性的項(xiàng)目應(yīng)該是Duivenvoorde游客中心了。當(dāng)時(shí)客戶要求的是，建筑外觀上像一個(gè)坐落于中世紀(jì)大花園中的谷倉(cāng)（一扇窗都沒(méi)有），而功能上像一個(gè)現(xiàn)代餐廳（很多扇窗），這完全就是自相矛盾的，設(shè)計(jì)非常困難。而設(shè)計(jì)方案出來(lái)后，實(shí)施過(guò)程又遇到困難，因?yàn)闆](méi)有建造商能夠?qū)崿F(xiàn)我們想要的效果。所以我們要參與到所有環(huán)節(jié)中，進(jìn)行必要的監(jiān)督指導(dǎo)，從草圖開始。建筑正面有可以打開的天窗，而實(shí)現(xiàn)這一點(diǎn)所需的所有機(jī)械零件都要隱藏起來(lái)。比如，框架木材寬度僅為67mm，卻需要與玻璃相匹配安裝，兩側(cè)的天窗有不少機(jī)械零件，而這些零件都需要隱藏起來(lái)，難度可想而知。我們還有一項(xiàng)艱巨的任務(wù)，就是保證客戶實(shí)時(shí)了解我們的最新進(jìn)展，并且始終能相信我們所做的選擇。好在最終的結(jié)果很理想，還贏得了2018凡爾賽大獎(jiǎng)。但這確實(shí)是目前我們遇到的最具挑戰(zhàn)性的項(xiàng)目。另一個(gè)比較有難度的項(xiàng)目是位于阿姆斯特丹的Moravian教堂。這一項(xiàng)目曾入圍新加坡世界建筑節(jié)提名名單。當(dāng)時(shí)由于全部資金都是明顯處于弱勢(shì)地位的教堂群體個(gè)人攢下的，所以數(shù)額不大，預(yù)算有限。為了一切從簡(jiǎn)，我們專注于設(shè)計(jì)的核心部分，也就是“明亮”和“白色”，以此為基礎(chǔ)保證建筑的專業(yè)水準(zhǔn)。

10.您認(rèn)為70F建筑事務(wù)所未來(lái)的發(fā)展方向如何？

作為一家事務(wù)所，我們始終在不斷前進(jìn)和發(fā)展。我們的作品在全球范圍內(nèi)得到廣泛認(rèn)可，因此我們的視野以及能力毋庸置疑。我們?cè)谥饾u接手大型項(xiàng)目，但同時(shí)也要保證有出類拔萃的經(jīng)久不衰的作品出現(xiàn)。目前主要專注于能給更多群眾帶來(lái)更多體驗(yàn)的多功能的建筑，例如酒店和公寓大樓等。除了本地的一些此類項(xiàng)目之外，我們也愿意并且已經(jīng)開始著手其它國(guó)家或地區(qū)的類似項(xiàng)目。

1. It's been 17 years since you founded 70F,could you share with our readers how you have maintained the great passion for architectural design?

Yes, it’s been a long time already. I guess the thing is, architecture is a lifestyle. I can only do it with passion, or not at all. It is in the core of any good architect, and a must for any top result. Also we have a fixed core team of people we work with, and a small group of interns and young architects who do internships here. This keeps us keen on any new theme or sense of what’s important to focus on for any moment in time. Architecture is a dynamic field; we need to adapt, change, listen, evolve, innovate and take charge towards it continuously.

2. How do you start the design of a project?And how the design concepts are activated and generated?

We start all of our projects with in depth interviews and meetings with the client. It is paramount to have all the input needed. More than just the absolute numbers (3 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms etc.) the definition of their architectural and spatial wishes is important. The problem is people find it hard to describe their feelings or express them in a spatial sense. That’s where we have to be smart and creative, asking the right questions to find the answers the client didn’t even know they had. Finding the concept is the most important and time consuming part of the process. The concept becomes the backbone of every project which is important in any stage later on; something to fall back to when you are in doubt or searching for a design solution. Finding the concept for the Duivenvoorde visitors Centre for instance, was a six week process of intense thinking, debating, sketching and reviewing. After these six weeks we were happy as can be having found the answer, while the client didn’t understand because there was nothing much to show for it yet. Only after the building was finished, they really understood.

3. Architectural education is included in your career. What architectural views you’d transmit to your students?

I am a visiting professor at several universities in the world. Working with students is one of my favourite jobs in architecture. You are met with huge talent, fresh eyes, good questions an interesting people. I love teaching students all I know. At the same time, in return the whole experience teaches me new things. The core of my lecturing lies in learning to ask the right questions. That could be questions to your client, to your project but most and foremost to yourself. What do I want to express with this design or solution, and why? At the university of Ljubljana, Slovenia for instance, I had the students design a Silence Chapel, a place within the city where one could still experience or even buy a piece of silence. Apart from the architectural outcome, first there is a take and reflection on the issue of silence in current times by the student necessary. There is a lot of dialogue in my teaching. Drawing is easy, thinking is more difficult. I think we need to contemplate hard and debate intensely,before we start drawing.

4. The volume of most of your buildings is not very big, and the moulding is concise. However,you focus on the design and the choice of materials for the skin. Could you say something about your treatment on the building skin?

For us, size doesn’t matter. All buildings have their context and design choices based on the concept. The challenge with every building is to find the best design, floorplan and fa?ade solution. Moreover, our buildings are an integral result of all building parameters. So the skin is not just a skin, it is the result of an integral process related to everything, not just anything. Often, the skin of the building as you call it, is the thing expressing the architecture of it. Therefore it has huge importance to the buildings that we make. The choice of the fa?ade material, it’s texture and the way it is used becomes the overall expression. But it is the result of a serious indepth research that defines the final fa?ade solution. This is something far from arbitrary, and can be felt more than it can be seen.

5.You think "the simpler you design, the more time you need to make the design more accurate". Would you specifically tell us how you would make the concise moulding more accurate?

It is a true that in simplicity often lies a profound battle to make this simplicity happen. It is much easier to make a not-simple building, aesthetically. One issue is accuracy; in my opinion and in our buildings we realise this by deciding on every available construction element. It could be saying something about a nailing pattern that will be used in the fa?ade, or the position of sub construction like girders that would normally be chosen randomly by the builder. If you look at our Sheepstable project for instance, a project with which we won the World Architecture Festival in Barcelona in 2008, you will find that all necessary construction parts down to the supporting slats of the fa?ade were given a specific and consequent position. Driving the builder insane, it turned out to have been crucial in the end result. Another issue is the demand for aesthetic simplicity in general. There is no standard solution to generate a simple look. Every opening or deviation needs a specific design solution, in order to make it fit the general look. It should be there, but not show. Simplicity and accidentality do not combine.

6. Most of the projects you designed are in the Netherlands. How would the regional culture and climate affect and influence your design?

In the Netherlands especially the climate and budget are key factors. Creating our architecture would be much easier if there would be less insulation demands or a bigger budget. Also the specific humidity often leads to a challenging use of materials. The good thing is, it has made us very creative into finding solution to get it the way we want it, at a low price. This requires huge knowledge of building techniques, which we have acquired over the years. The building materials we use are predominantly wood and brickwork, both typical Dutch building materials, especially the latter. The Dutch building trade however is focused on standard or proven solutions for these materials, and builders find it difficult to change their ways. Rethinking these construction methods and convincing them to try a new solution is part of the job and can only successfully be done by simply ‘knowing your stuff’. Or, as I often tell my students humorously; I am not arrogant, I simply know better...

Different countries bring a different context in any case. We are doing a project of luxury holiday homes in Italy,on the edge of Tuscany, where politics and knowing the right people in the right places is important. Or our project in Iran, where communication is an issue not only because of the language, but also because of the customary rules that are invisible written between the lines. And our boutique island resort in Belize offers the challenge of hurricanes and light construction materials in order to be able to easily transport these materials to the small island some 45 minutes by boat from Belize city.

7. What do you think of the contemporary architecture in China? If you have a chance, what kind of project you’d like to design in China?

I think China is a very interesting country, mainly because of the scale and numbers things are being done in.Your contemporary architecture evolves on a very high level and I always wonder how the interaction in relation to such a densely populated country works out. It’s a super scale kind of city planning and architecture the Chinese seem to be working with, which is fascinating. We would be very keen on doing a private house, an apartment building or a design hotel in China. Our office focus at the moment is on especially the latter, design- or boutique hotels. We see a huge shift in the way people experience and move around while on holiday. This is something we want to investigate and show in a new, forward looking hotel design concept.

8. We noticed you also design a lot of interiors.How do you apply the materials and colours to express the space characteristics?

Yes, we also do interior design which is an extension of our architecture, like the Acibadem International Medical Centre in Amsterdam. In some way it is the same as architecture; both creative and focused on designing. But interior design is more detailed and refined in another way. Materials and textures are more intense in an interior because you experience them up close and can be overwhelmed by them, but at the same time can easily become dull when you don’t use any texture at all. It’s all about the balance between materials, colour and making it an interior where you long to ‘come home’ to, especially in designing a house or hotel interior. We tend to be on the edge with our minimalistic designs. The design must be functional and spatial but at the same time not give the feeling you’re on a filmset and have to be careful with every design solution. That’s also why we design a spot for everything, from your coat to your car keys. When a client comes to us, they usually have a ton of ideas and they never fit. It is our job to combine their many ideas in to one design that captures everything they want. It’s very personal and therefore we have a lot of consultations with the client. We do a lot of customization and design everything up till the handles of cabinets. A good example of this is Villa Frenay, which turned out to be a very balanced project on garden and house, space and detail. To make a good design you need more than creativity,you have to empathize with your client.

9. Would you please share with our readers the most challenging project since you took up the occupation?

I guess the most challenging project so far was the Duivenvoorde visitors Centre. The completely contradictory demands of a building that should look like a barn in a medieval monumental garden (no windows) but should function like a modern restaurant (lots of windows) was challenging. Executing the solution was even more challenging, since there was no builder able to make what we had in mind. So we had to engineer everything from scratch; the fa?ade had to be openable, but without showing any of the mechanical parts necessary to do so. With a limited frame wood width of 67 mm having to fit the glass and the mechanical parts for the hatches on two sides as just an example of part of the problem, the challenge becomes clear. Keeping the client in the loop and convinced of the choices we had made at the same time was also part of this tedious process. It turned out very well in the end, even winning the Prix Versailles 2018 with it, but it must have been the biggest challenge so far. Another demanding project was the Moravian Church we built in Amsterdam and was nominated for the World Architecture Festival in Singapore. The budget, all money saved privately by the predominantly underprivileged church community, was very limited. By keeping things simple an focussing on the core of this design, being ‘light’and the colour ‘white’, we managed to keep the level at a high architectural standard.

10. What do you think the trend and development direction of 70F?

As an office we are growing and developing continuously. Our architecture is being appreciated worldwide so there is no doubt on our vision or take on it. We are slowly but surely working on larger projects but at the same time we need our contact with the projects to be eminent and constant. Our focus now is on buildings that have a verity of functions and offer a wider experience to a larger public, like hotels and apartment buildings. Working on some local projects within this focus, we are also interested in and focussing on doing this somewhere else in the world.