當(dāng)今中國應(yīng)該給世界看些什么
——專訪中國美協(xié)駐會副主席、秘書長徐里

文本刊記者 丁薇 Ding Wei 譯曹宇光Cao Yuguang

來自波斯賴伊的瓷器（布面綜合）納賽爾·帕蘭吉Ceramics from Rayy in Persia (Oil and Gold Relief on Canvas) by Nasser Palangi

記者：近些年中國美協(xié)在對外交流方面做了很多，比如即將開幕的北京國際美術(shù)雙年展已是第七屆，還有“互繪·相知”中國當(dāng)代美術(shù)作品展、“藝術(shù)與和平”中國美術(shù)世界行等活動都很成功。走了這么多地方，給您印象最深的交流活動是什么，有什么體會？

徐里：今年5月，“藝術(shù)與和平——中國當(dāng)代美術(shù)作品展”走進(jìn)意大利，引起了很大反響，中國與意大利代表東西方文明的兩座高峰在羅馬進(jìn)行了藝術(shù)上的對話，中華優(yōu)秀的傳統(tǒng)文化、核心價(jià)值觀得到了進(jìn)一步彰顯，提振了我們的文化自信。面對當(dāng)今世界的不安寧，歐洲恐怖主義的活動猖獗，展覽作品中期盼和平的主題受到了意大利觀眾的歡迎，《家園》《蘆望之一》《筷子樹》等作品呼吁人們保護(hù)生態(tài)環(huán)境，維護(hù)和建設(shè)人類賴以生存的共同家園。向往人類和平、關(guān)愛地球家園引起了西方人強(qiáng)烈的共鳴，由此可見習(xí)近平總書記提出的“命運(yùn)共同體”論斷所具有的普世價(jià)值。

要提升國家的文化軟實(shí)力首先取決于你給世界展示了什么，作為藝術(shù)創(chuàng)作者要有文化自信，用具有中國文化、中國元素、中國精神的作品影響世界，讓西方接受中國的審美藝術(shù)，感受獨(dú)具東方意韻的中國文化。

今年北京國際美術(shù)雙年展共收到120個(gè)國家4000多名藝術(shù)家的應(yīng)征作品一萬余件，雙年展從首屆舉辦到今天已有15年，參與國家的數(shù)量從首屆的45個(gè)增加到102個(gè)，今年是首次破百?？梢钥吹健敖z路與世界文明”的主題得到了全世界藝術(shù)家的響應(yīng)。中國作為世界第二大經(jīng)濟(jì)體已經(jīng)為世界貢獻(xiàn)了一個(gè)不一樣的中國，尤其習(xí)近平總書記的大國外交策略使得中國的國際地位和影響力逐年提高。在中國取得巨大經(jīng)濟(jì)成果的今天，提升中國的文化軟實(shí)力是我們必須要完成的課題。

記者：美術(shù)作為展示國家形象的重要載體，為中國塑像，舉足輕重。您認(rèn)為什么樣的作品最能代表中國聲音，展示國家形象？

徐里：今年7月，習(xí)近平主席對德國進(jìn)行國事訪問并出席在德國漢堡舉行的二十國集團(tuán)領(lǐng)導(dǎo)人第十二次峰會。同期，中國美協(xié)承辦了在德國柏林舉辦的中國美術(shù)作品展，題為“感知中國·最美中國人”，取得了很好的效果。我們選擇了中國藝術(shù)家和中國人民心中最美的形象，這其中有《雷鋒》《高德榮畫像》《焦裕祿》等時(shí)代楷模，也有《風(fēng)雨兼程的鄉(xiāng)村郵遞員》這樣的普通中國百姓，76幅人物畫連在一起構(gòu)成了中國最美的群像長卷，中國人民的勤勞、善良、智慧以一種直觀、生動的方式呈現(xiàn)在了國際友人面前。德國觀眾在這些作品前駐足，通過這些藝術(shù)作品觸摸當(dāng)今中國的時(shí)代脈搏，了解當(dāng)今中國的時(shí)代風(fēng)貌，這種方式對中國文化和價(jià)值理念的宣傳與傳播是潛移默化的。

記者：近年來中國美協(xié)組織策劃的一系列主題性、主旋律、重大歷史題材的創(chuàng)作活動，比如中華文明歷史題材美術(shù)創(chuàng)作工程對五千年文明史的梳理與存像，紀(jì)念建黨95周年作品展對中國共產(chǎn)黨宏偉業(yè)績的謳歌，紀(jì)念紅軍長征勝利80周年的12幅巨作對長征精神的再解讀等，這些對美術(shù)界產(chǎn)生了哪些重要的創(chuàng)作方向上的影響？

徐里：改革開放以來，因?yàn)閲T打開，美術(shù)家受西方影響，存在一些金錢化、市場化、自由主義的傾向以及“去思想化”“去歷史化”“去主流化”等思潮，為此，通過一些重大歷史題材的創(chuàng)作，弘揚(yáng)英雄精神，描繪時(shí)代楷模，使這些不良的局面得以扭轉(zhuǎn)，美術(shù)創(chuàng)作回到正道。藝術(shù)的精神力量是靈魂，而宏大敘事的表現(xiàn)才是正道。美術(shù)家應(yīng)當(dāng)從深邃的歷史當(dāng)中，從生動的現(xiàn)實(shí)生活當(dāng)中表現(xiàn)中國的傳統(tǒng)文化，創(chuàng)作具有中國價(jià)值觀的優(yōu)秀作品，在藝術(shù)理解和藝術(shù)表現(xiàn)方面，要對過去的歷史主題繪畫進(jìn)行超越和發(fā)展。細(xì)數(shù)起來就會發(fā)現(xiàn)，黨的十八大以來美術(shù)界在主旋律、主題性、重大歷史題材創(chuàng)作方面碩果累累，而且參與的人數(shù)也越來越多，這些作品很大程度上解決了美術(shù)界存在的創(chuàng)新發(fā)展問題、有高原無高峰問題，解決了創(chuàng)作中如何表現(xiàn)當(dāng)今時(shí)代的問題，也很好回應(yīng)了習(xí)近平總書記對文藝界的系列重要講話精神。通過這些創(chuàng)作活動，美術(shù)界緊緊團(tuán)結(jié)在為國家中心工作服務(wù)的大局中，匡正了美術(shù)界的創(chuàng)作導(dǎo)向。

記者：重大革命歷史題材可以說是一個(gè)常畫常新的主題，當(dāng)代美術(shù)家對于重大的歷史事件、歷史人物、歷史節(jié)點(diǎn)的表現(xiàn)，與過往同類型作品比較有哪些發(fā)展與開掘？能否談?wù)勂錃v史意義、藝術(shù)價(jià)值？

徐里：比如中國美協(xié)去年組織的紀(jì)念紅軍長征勝利八十周年作品展，雖然長征作品創(chuàng)作是個(gè)老話題，但是在新時(shí)期如何更好地理解長征精神，表現(xiàn)長征精神，是我們這一代美術(shù)家與上一代的不同之處，我們既要把長征精神表現(xiàn)好，同時(shí)又要在藝術(shù)性上體現(xiàn)我們當(dāng)代美術(shù)家的水準(zhǔn)，要將今天的美術(shù)語境與主題性繪畫創(chuàng)作結(jié)合在一起。長征主題展一共展出12幅巨作，以《飛渡瀘定橋》為例，畫作中的人物雖然形象不是特別具體，但作品中的浪漫主義色彩尤具感染力，紅軍這種不怕死、勇往直前的狀態(tài)，表現(xiàn)十分到位。過去美術(shù)家表現(xiàn)過草地“紅光亮”的基調(diào)頗多，但《草地鐵流》中紅軍戰(zhàn)士相互攙扶向著前方一縷曙光走向草地深處，非常壓抑、低沉。只有真實(shí)地表現(xiàn)沼澤地里的隨時(shí)犧牲，才能凸顯奪取勝利的來之不易，所以長征題材也可以是悲情深沉的，這就是當(dāng)代美術(shù)家所理解的長征精神，這種具有悲劇色彩的畫面呈現(xiàn)令長征精神更加博大，閃耀光芒。

在西方國家，歷史性的主題繪畫比比皆是，歐洲一些重要的美術(shù)館、博物館，像盧浮宮、大英、大都會等等都陳列著本國的歷史巨作，國內(nèi)雖唐宋時(shí)期便有記錄市井階層生活和皇帝出行、大典的繪畫，卻鮮成規(guī)模。所以我們現(xiàn)在有義務(wù)也有責(zé)任把主題性繪畫創(chuàng)作做好，為中國藝術(shù)史注入金戈鐵馬的藝術(shù)精神。

另一個(gè)時(shí)空（布面丙烯）納比勒·沙曼Another Time (Acrylic on Canvas) by Nabeel Samman

As a great power with time-honored history, china's culture has been playing an extremely important role in its external exchanges. In the current period of great achievement in economy, how Chinese arts conduct dialogues with the world in a more extensive scope,comprehensive domain and lofted level and establishes the contemporary national image of China in the international arena is a topic worthy of discussion. In this regard, our reporter had a special interview with XU Li,executive vice president and secretary general of China Artists Association (CAA).

Reporter: In recent years, CAA has sponsored many events in external exchange such as the upcoming 7th BIAB, “Exchange Painting/Mutual Learning” Chinese Contemporary Artworks Exhibition, “Art and Peace” World Journey of Chinese Fine Arts, all of which have turned out to be a success. Among so many events, which has impressed you most and what has inspired you most ?

馴鷹術(shù)（布面油畫）阿列克謝·薩圖諾夫Falconry (Oil on Canvas) by Aleksei Shatunov

XU Li: This May, “Art and Peace—Chinese Contemporary Fine Arts Exhibition” was held in Italy and aroused a significant feedback.China and Italy, the two HEIGHST of Oriental and Occidental civilizations, had a dialogue of arts in Rome and the excellent traditional culture as well as the core values of China were further highlighted, which has encouraged our self-confidence in culture.In face of the unsecure world and rampant terrorist attacks in Europe, the theme of expectation for peace was commonly welcome among the Italian audiences. Such works as Homeland,Sight over the Reed Tip and Chopstick Tree called on people to preserve ecological environment, safeguard and construct the common homeland for human survival. Such concerns about human peace and global preservation had aroused a strong sympathy among Westerners and thus we could obviously find the universal value of “Community with shared future for mankind”put forward by Chinese President Xi Jinping.

First of all, the enhanced soft power of national culture depends on what to be shown to the world. As artistic creators, we must be self-confident in our own culture and bring the world under the influence of Chinese culture, elements and spirits. In recognition of Chinese aesthetics, the West can feel about Chinese culture of unique Oriental charm.

Reporter: As an important carrier of China’s national image, fine arts function as a decisive factor. What kind of artworks do you believe can represent the voice and image of China?

XU Li: This July, President XI Jinping paid a state visit to Germany and attended the 12th Summit of Group 20 at Hamburg. During the same period, CAA undertook a Chinese art exhibition titled “ Feel about China/Most Beautiful Chinese” in Berlin, which was wellreceived. We selected 76 figures as the most beautiful Chinese in the mind of Chinese artists and people, such as times models LEI Feng, GAO Derong and JIAO Yulu as well as ordinary workers such as countryside postman despite wind and rain. In this long scroll about the most beautiful people in China, the diligence, good-will and wisdom of Chinese people were presented to forelgn friends in a vivid and lively way. Standing in appreciation of those works,German audiences were able to touch the current pulse and know about the current expression of China. Such a kind of publicity and dissemination of Chinese culture and values is easy to accept.

Reporter: In recent years CAA has organized a series of artistic creations concerning‘socialist central theme’and significant historical themes such as arraying five thousand years of civilization history through the project of “Fine Arts Creation of Historical Themes of Chinese Civilization”, singing ode to CPC through the Commemorative Exhibition in the anniversary of CPC Establishment and giving reinterpretation of Long March Spirit through the 12 giant works in honor of the 80th anniversary of Victory of the Red Army’s Long March. What influence have those events exerted on the creation direction of Chinese fine arts?

Xu Li: Since the reform and opening up, our artists have been severely impacted by Western culture and some wrong preferences for money, market and liberalism as well as fashions to erase thinking, history and mainstream have taken shape. In this case, by organizing creations of significant historical themes to praise the heroine spirit and role models, CAA endeavors to put an end to those dangerous tendencies and bring artistic creation back to the normal values. The spiritual power of arts lies in the soul while the expression in large-scale narration is the correct path. Artists are supposed to reflect the traditional Chinese culture both from the profound history and from vivid life in the reality and create excellent artworks of Chinese values. In the respect of artistic comprehension and manifestation, a surpassing development must be made on the basis of those paintings of historical themes in the past. In retrospect, we can find fruitful achievements and increasing artists in artistic creation concerning the socialist central theme and significant historical themes ever since the 18thNational Congress of CPC. In this way, the problems of lack of innovative development, genuine masterpieces and current reflection were solved in a great degree and echoed the President XI Jinping’s series of speeches about literary and art circles. Thanks to those creational events, Chinese fine arts circle has been united to serve for national interest and the direction of creation has been made right.

Reporter: Significant revolutionary and historical theme is an eternal theme for artists. As for current artists’ reflection of those significant historical incidents, figures and points, what development, innovation has been realized compared with those previously? What is their historical significance and value in arts?

XU Li: I would like to take the exhibition in honor of the 80thanniversary of the Red Army’s Long March as example. Though Long March is an old topic in fine arts creation, the current comprehension and manifestation of the Long March Spirit is a different issue for our generation. We are supposed to not only provide a perfect reflection of the Long March Spirit, but also demonstrate the contemporary artistic standard so as to achieve a combination of the current fine arts context and theme painting creation. Among the 12 giant works, I would like to take two examples. Though the figures seemed to be less specific, the romantic colors in the painting Taking of Luding Bridge perfectly displayed the bravery and perseverance of the Red Army. The grass in some old paintings used to appear bright in red colors while in the painting Irony Stream in the Grass, soldiers supported each other by the arm in walking towards deep grass in the twilight, which showed a depressive and overcast tone. Only by depicting the real danger hidden in the marsh can the author stress on the priceless victory that sacrifice lead to. In this sense,the Long March Spirit in contemporary understanding is conveyed in such a miserable atmosphere and such tragic moments bring audiences to appreciate the grandeur and brilliance of the Long March Spirit.

In Western countries, the historical theme paintings are almost everywhere, and national masterpieces of its motherland history can be found in some critical art galleries and museums in Europe and America such as Louvre, British Museum and Metropolitan Museum of Art. In Tang and Song Dynasties, some paintings of recording civil life, imperial excursion and ceremonies occurred from time to time. Therefore, it is our responsibility and obligation to excel in theme paintings and imbue the artistic spirit of shining spears and armed horses into China’s art history.

莊子—逍遙游（雕塑）陳云崗Zhuangzi (Sculpture) by CHEN Yungang